Problematic abillity combinations

With the revamp finally getting here, and the costing of runes being worked upon, I think we should take a look at the abillity combinations which are problematic. A few examples would be:

Trail:Sand + Sandstriker : this is +5 damage for lower cost
Trail:X + Domain:X : Free stats for lower cost
Berserk + Unstoppable : One of the worst offenders. Possibly a reason rageband is exo and not uncommon.
IIRC Berserk 1 actually costs -1 nora, so this combination would be literally giving free stats for a cost decrease + unstoppable.

Nohkando + counterattack everything : It might be an issue with nohkando being crazy cheap for what it does, but I thought this combination was rather stupid.

Obviously I haven't looked at every rune specifically, nor do I intend to, but I'm sure there are more combinations of runes which have their drawbacks removed by another abillity, and I think these should be brought to dev attention and redesigned.

 

Trail+Striker is 11 nora. Lower cost compared to what? We have no basis for DMG cost except Bonus + which is 2/4. That constant would (possibly) put +5 dmg at +10 nora. Besides the fact that, even rare and convoluted, terrain manipulation exists in the game.

Trail+Domain is usually 9 nora. For 12 nora worth of stats (Again, assuming 3 DMG is 6, 1 DEf is 2 and Mobi is 4). Slight discount but far from gamebreaking.

Careless+Unstoppable is it's own thing but is rarely seen in the wild. Seems you have issue with RB more than anything, I'll leave that up for someone else to debate (but srs?)

NKD is dumb, yeah.

 

Don't forget Warogg in the Unstoppable Berserk debate...which I'd be inclined to call "busywork" rather than "broken."

 

The reason I noticed these first, is because I play mostly SL and FS. I don't have a particular issue with either sandstriker/domain + trail, or with rageband, apart from that they have horrible design. You put a drawback on a stat boost (careless on berserker) and then you take it away with another abillity. Or you put a conditional statboost (sandstriker) then give a champion the condition at all times. So now you have trail sand for free ( because as you said +5 dmg is already in the cost). And terrain manipulation does not affect units with trail:x, since they create their own terrain.

 

sibling+inmortality+65 nora cost= plain stupid, yeah red caps, the only drawback of the -5 h for the shrine is easily solved having scorched dwarves

 

- Yes this is def what we have discussed as "busy work" ... Its also a contributing factor to skill clutter. Just give the champ the stats instead of trying to be cute with abilities that negate drawbacks for stats.

 

dodge + arrow throw
it's bad enough that my attack miss but then *I* take damage! should be like 50 norans.
OP nerf plz

 

split+regen


i mean really, what am i supposed to do about that? hit it more, right??

 

Rock Eater

Cuz it already immune to physical, but then he heals from it too?

 

What is the term "busy work" mean?

 

busy work is something you're assigned to do to kill time. it serves no other meaningful purpose

 

Just think of it as Unstoppable + Stats - The ability to add Berserker.
Terrain Sand + 5 DMG - The ability to add Sandstriker.

 

Ok so it basicially means "if it isn't broken don't fix it" in this context?

 

assuming that this is what you're referring to, rokku, it's more saying (if i understand both you and chief correctly, at least) that both things do the same thing, only one creates more work for the player to do to properly understand the interaction (as instead of saying that the champion simply has x base stats, it instead has x base stats but is immediately pumped to y buff stats because of z ability combination that realistically serves no purpose other than to straight up give some stats)


in reply to chief, though, for something like sandstriker+trail or domain+trail, giving the champ the straight stats is a straight buff. even though they have trail, there are times when their terrain still is not with them. chasms are an obvious example (except for chasmwalkers and 2x2s, but Firk those guys anyway). another is counter-terrain of various sorts.

sure it's not a huge deal, but why not have these few little interactions? seeing trail-sand and then sandstriker means that you know that they'll get more damage than they have base, and that they're really heavily sand specced. gotta let em learn.

 

Assault+Punish

 

This one always annoyed me on the fact that it made no sense.

The attack occurs when you DISENGAGE*, as in, movement occurs. I would get moving a space then losing all AP but nooooo. Poxnora.

*we could argue semantics over "attempts" to disengage and that it's working as coded (which I agree) but still, so dumb. Here's free Clamp just by hugging a champ.

 

I would like to mention the unstoppable + berserker combination does have a bit of sense in a specific scenario: stacking berserker on a champion with berserker.

Hypothetically, if we change band rage to just a straight up buff (+1 spd and +4dmg I think), what would happen if we put it on the warogg? Yeah, right, 9 spd, 12+ dmg (+ enrage) warogg is what the meta needs.

Unstoppable alone, imo, doesn't worth an entire equipment, so it needs to be combined with some other goodies. However, straight stat buffs would lead to silly scenarios like above, so it needs some way to avoid over-buffing a champion with berserker, who would be the main target for unstoppable at will. Have you noticed any other source of unstoppable, other than sustain? Maybe we could talk about revamping the BR to something else, but honestly, if ain't broken, don't fix it. I think there are more pressing issues right now.

 

- Trail at least provides synergy and can be a part of a greater theme enabling system. Unstoppable + berserker and teleport + stationary to some degree are far less elegant surely we must agree on.

 

unstoppable+berserker is basically "gain stats immediately and forever, but you can't gain more stats this way. also unstoppable for kicks". if you replaced it with unstoppable+stats, being able to gain berserker would make it a net buff in theory (also if it ever got FR'd, but u no)


teleport/stationary i think of as a relatively straightforward thing- it can't move by normal means so it has to make do with magical ones.

 

The dream died when you couldn't Grant Tunnel on Snipers anymore.