Okay, normally I'm quiet about changes and deal with what comes along. But in this latest patch there was a change that made me an unhappy camper and that was the change to Purefire. It was the only spell UD had to spot cleanse something, now I understand that our faction is not supposed to cleanse really but instead use Sacrifice and Retribution and such things, I also get it that the change to Purefire now makes it an entirely offensive spell which can hurt badly, especially in a Fire BG. Still, I kind of feel robbed of something that was really useful against stuff like Stun (there is lots of stuff like that around in the game nowadays too), I liked to keep champs in play with this spell instead of having to kill them off to still get something useful out of them. Anyway, that was just my point of view and I wanted to get it out here so maybe the design choice can be thought about again.
So we are forced to use sacrifice and retribution over and over again. Can the vulnerability fire be used (with success) with siphon/fire eater?
I'm actually pretty happy with this change. I proposed purefire a long time ago and it was meant only as a dispell ( also proposed Bane Shift - which is UD style cleanse). Not every faction needs spot cleanse, and UD has a lot of pseudo-cleanse options and really powerful spells which reward anticipating it. I'm happy the faction is more skill based, purefire also cleansing was one of my biggest gripes with the faction - don't get me wrong it was useful, but it took away flavor , made a lot of runes obsolete, and brought a lot of people who didn't understand how to play the faction. I do wish it was 30 nora, as originally released, but overall I'm satisfied. P.S. This is also good in that it promotes the creation of a new spell for a theme that needs it(that theme could have access to spot cleanse). A lot of other things in these patches have irked me, and at this point that's to be expected but this is one change -- though some may not understand my opinion -- I always wanted.
Thanks Legato, I totally forgot about Bane Shift, and I do understand where you are coming from, and yes, I can see Purefire as still being useful. I included Bane Shift in my BG now. Let's see how I will do with it.
I like the new Purefire. What I don't like is how, it seems, UD is constantly being told they can't have things. Can't have spot cleanse, can't have ranged, can't have certain abilities because zomg DMG bonus, etc. It just gets annoying after a while. I realize I sound like quite the zealot at the moment. Again - I like the new Purefire, and I never really included the spot cleanse version anyway - it's just the principle.
I agree with what sepulcher said, just because we're melee beaters doesn't mean we aren't allowed access to other themes like the rest of the factions. It's pretty dull having to find ways to make up for the lack of things we don't have. Makes UD feel limited in what it can really do, which is not something I'd really like to see of UD. It's like we're stereotyped just because we MOSTLY like to bash peoples faces in up close with a heavy axe or sword. I would also like however to rain down long ranged bombardments from like idk, some demonic artillery or a vothsair with cannons...man that'd be sweet. Hey at least we got Sheoul Demon back!
I agree with Sep At least I can take this out of my spider bg now, I guess dark pact on Klzik will suffice
I like the new Purefire because it feels like it has a more specific role (enabler for Fire Amp). If my understanding is correct (and I'm not saying that it is) I believe that none of the Wrath factions are supposed to really have much healing or cleanse, an idea that's been slowly forgotten over the years due to power creep.
Is it really? It looks like all he wanted to do was take a shot at KF. If he were trying to make a point about factions getting things they aren't "supposed to have," he would've indicted the whole D'elim theme instead. Within the context of the theme, Flame Siphon (and Cleansing Flame) both make sense and are reasonable. And it's not like there's an argument to be made that KF can't have Nora Gen - Artisan and Diplomat have had miner forever (and Slag before revamp), while CE has been a KF mainstay for years. I would say that Scorched Dwarf in UD is more out there than Outcast of the Flame, a member of a theme, having Flame Siphon (which it didn't gain until recently, when it was a standalone rune it did not have it at all).
Did they remove the damage on purefire ? i think i will put one of each baneshift to use on my champions and using purefire to dispell opponents and also cleanse your champ as well
I'll leave it up to pede to tell you what his post meant. It really shouldn't be up to either of us to decide that. Dwarf makes sense, while I personally would much rather have a more faction representative source, much of the flavor in UD is enslaving and exploiting its prisoners and unlike Diplomat and Artisan he's really not doing anything else. I am for faction defining strengths and weaknesses. If Dwarf was gone today, I wouldn't mind, I would only question how to replace it in the most fitting way for the faction. KF has largely disenfranchised these values of late. They've actually always gotten away with a lot, but when it's continually veering dangerously close into things that destroy the game itself, whether it's via homogenization or otherwise it irks this Poxer. I dislike the inconsistency. People will always fabricate reasons, however convoluted and nonsensical, to justify an end. Even broken clocks are right twice a day, enough pushing and it happens. Carelessly granting defining assets , what are incentives to play another faction, shouldn't be taken so lightly. I personally think your example illustrates a problem. KF, despite already having passive nora gen, obtained active nora gen with no conditional parameters(unlike dwarf) while also having it be the kind whose 'cost' is moot given the faction's tools. A lot doesn't make sense. I don't want to place blame, I want it stopped and rectified. I doubt most people even understand what the differences are supposed to be anymore. I will argue my butt away to keep easy cleanse away from UD. I'll also fight to prevent the faction from ever having too many ranged units, anything that even remotely resembles a 'free' protective spell a la righteous shield/Bubble - anything that's not drastically costing either the user or the receiver, but on the other hand I see prolific KF players fighting for spot equip removal all the time. This is the difference.
I'd argue that Outcast of the Flame having Flame Siphon is not a reason to play KF, but a reason to play the Devotee theme. If you question the design philosophy of Devotee, I see your point and think it's more a split KF/UD theme. All in all, it's a terrible example to call out for color bleeding (to use MtG terminology). Why not call out something like Sixul instead? I agree with keeping faction flavor - I happen to not see why no spot equip removal in KF is flavorful, but I'm not clamoring for it. Nor have I seen other top players do so, which is why I'm confused by that example.
I'm pretty much on this page. Spot cleanse shouldnt, I think, be in wrath at all, or at least not the most wrathy factions - UD and FW. We should get other options. But equally, abilities like dispel should be more easy to do - there should be strengths, not just weaknesses. In any case, it wasn't my suggestion to change purefire, since I don't think it's my place to make that kind of design decision, so gedden seems to be of a similar opinion.
