Question about backlash + soul tapped.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ghklf, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. ghklf

    ghklf The King of Potatoes

    Backlash
    Whenever a champion or relic generates nora through an ability it suffers damage equal to the amount generated.

    Soul Tapped
    At the beginning of the affected units turn, all soultapped champions lose 2 life and you gain nora for every point of life lost this way.

    The case is that my opposite has some champions with Backlash and some of my champions get Soul Tapped.

    Is this combo meant to cause my soul tapped champions lose 2 hp then dealt 2 damage(and no one knows the damage type or what decides the damge type)?

    What is the source of the nora generated by soul tap?

    Soul Tapped is a condition not an ability. When soul tapped, my champions do not have an ability that generates nora.

    I am not saying it is a bug....just want to get clarified about this combo thus what is going on.

    Thank you very much.
     
  2. WhatTheHex

    WhatTheHex The King of Potatoes

    I think it's WAI. It's a cool combo.
     
  3. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    Based on description it's technically not WAI but I think it is. Description should just say "Whenever a champion or relic generates Nora it suffers damage equal to the amount generated."
     
  4. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    it is not a cool combo.
     
  5. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    Its WAI but the description of the abilities make the concept some what counterintuitive.
    • Soul tapped the condition causes you to lose 2 life and generate 2 nora for your opponent which is hp loss and not a damage type and as such bypasses defenses like resists or tough or resilient.
    • Backlash causes the sources of nora gen to lose hp equal to the amount of nora generated so its also more hp loss.
    • Since its your champ that has the condition on it which generates the nora, backlash targets your champ for the extra damage, not the champ that gave you the soul tapped condition.

    Also keep in mind that sometimes conditions are also considered abilities and vice versa. Occasionally you can receive an ability as a condition or a condition as a permanent ability depending on how they were put on your champ, be it through spells or abilities or proximity buffs. With this in mind it becomes easier to see why this combo works this way.
     
  6. ghklf

    ghklf The King of Potatoes

    That only works on factions that do not have aoe cleanse.
     
  7. ghklf

    ghklf The King of Potatoes

    Did u mean that ability = condition? or sometimes?

    If sometimes, how do I know when ability = condition?

    Guess this is another case of ability condition confusion. I never get understood how their effects differentiate exactly.

    Anyway thank you.
     
  8. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    That is false. Backlash triggers on Abilities. NOT conditions. Similar to how Fire Acolyte does not trigger on Charred. This should not be happening.
     
    KingJad likes this.
  9. WhatTheHex

    WhatTheHex The King of Potatoes

    It works versus every faction, I mean cleansing auras and spot cleanse is a good counter to it. But applying the soultap is very easy, with Psychic Anguish and Soultap Garnet. I've played my deck and won versus every faction so far, exo-leaguers and limited-leaguers.
     
  10. Mausini

    Mausini I need me some PIE!

    The Soultap + Backlash mechanic is working like this for ages and it opens space for some cool bg's. It was discussed several times and the outcome was always that it is WAI.

    Regarding easy to apply: Not anymore.
    Most good ranged champs (and you want Soultap on a ranged champ) lost Soultap. Psychic Anguish is on 6 champs so far but Lamina is more or less unplayable in Soultap bg's because she is much to expensive.

    My conclusion after playing a lot of games with Soultap centered bgs before and after the Ronin Expansion:
    • The Soultap mechanic is very draw dependent and you simply loose if you cant apply it earlygame.
    • Another thing is that all champs with backlash are keychamps. Kill them and your bg fails.
    • Sharing Backlash and Soultap on one upgrade path does hurt Shadestriker as former core champ of backlash bg's a lot.
    • Soul Feast is buggy and don't work with anything else than Basic Attacks
    • Different ways of applying Soultap do apply them for 3 or 10 or infinite rounds. Its very inconsistent.
    I would really like to play bg's like that but in its current state its not really an option. Allmost any other bg is stronger.
    I would love to discuss Backlash bgs furthermore. It has always been my favorite bg.
     
  11. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    The current meta is if someone is dead it can't hurt you. While a Draksar Rocketeer at 1 hp, still does damage. The spread dmg around, attrition has fall off because of the efficiency of the 1 round mentality. I do enjoy attrition though. I still do Festering Woulds bgs from time to time. Just for the hell of it.
     
  12. TheBulwark

    TheBulwark I need me some PIE!

    Backlash triggers on the nora generation itself so it most definitely is WAI
     
  13. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Just wanted to point out that attrition is still very solid and in the hands of a good player with a good bg its almost unbeatable. People just dont play it much because its boring as heck.
     
  14. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Just because something is happening, does not mean its WAI. Even if it is truly WAI. The question then becomes. Should it be WAI.
     
  15. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Never said it wasn't good. Just that it has fallen out of favor.
     
  16. TheBulwark

    TheBulwark I need me some PIE!

    Well you can certainly explore if it should be WAI. I dont think its especially imba but thats my opinion
     
  17. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Phrasing is very important in Poxnora. It says it only on "generates nora through abilities." If "conditions" are classified as abilities for Backlash; then its WAI, and I have no issues. If conditions are meant to be separate, and its a coding thing. Then I have an issue. @Moles
     
  18. sassquatch

    sassquatch I need me some PIE!

    its more apt to read the term condition in this game as "conditional ability". with that in mind what I previously stated is true and some conditions are abilities and vice versa. for example wandering can be a condition applied by halucinagenic and cleansable OR it can be an ability put on via spell or just naturally on base as with Kthun and permanent and uncleansable. in this case backlash states that it targets the champion or relic (AKA source) of the nora gen ability (or conditional ability) to deal damage, while fire acolyte states it heals when fire damage is dealt EXCLUDING damage from charred. the acolyte abilities specifically exclude the condition that could trigger it while backlash does not.
     
    TheBulwark likes this.
  19. TheBulwark

    TheBulwark I need me some PIE!

    Well said
     
  20. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    False, keeper of memories says hey.
     

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