So all this complaining about tokens...

You can't buy tokens with gold efficiently anymore. Remember how silver tokens were 50 gold or something? It's 4000 for 3 silver, 4 gold, 3 bronze. Anyone with sense would glance at the token gold price and figure out you might as well save that much gold for packs.

Unless you're talking about how gold as a whole is not revenue in which yeah that's obvious. But if you're going to go on about only using gold, then you shouldn't have any problems with grinding in the first place given how much gold you'd need. And don't even think about asking to make all rune prices low enough to use gold casually get everything. I've had enough reading about your (yes you Boozha in particular) self-entitlement today

 

To prevent "thread tl;dr" from getting skipped at end of previous page by new readers.

 

What I like about this kind of threads is sayings like "don't call your customers entitled" and the such, as if the players who post here are all Desert Owl employees. It's the kind of involvment that only small games can have

 

As I have stated in other threads, the cost of the tokens has increased significantly, but I do believe in one sense (for better or for worse) we have been spoiled from before.

Before the bronze token was worth 25 gold (45 for silver, but I will use the base token for ease of calculation. If you buy the 10 token pack, a bronze token's worth is 140 gold, buying the 30 token pack, the bronze token is worth 100 gold.

I can see it being possible to pay 7,50 USD in order to buy the 30 token pack, but I feel that people would still probably prefer to spend that money in terms of packs.

At the end of the day, even though there has been a lot of discussion here about tokens and the price of tokens and I can definitely see where Emries is going with having something else outside of packs (though there are avatars, which can now be bought for gold, and campaigns, which were given for free to all of us, and hopefully perhaps something cosmetic will come down the line), I believe the real issue (which I believe has been brought up even in this thread) is that the CP has become absolutely necessary if you want to engage using the full potential, and not only that, but that there is a *significant* difference between a level 1 rune and a level 3 rune in almost every single case, unlike how it was before where CP was optional. I will say, however, that the change did make *all* tokens useful instead of just the gold an the platinum tokens which for better or for worse did increase the value of all of the tokens (a bronze token was nowhere near worth 1/4th of a gold token), though it was a trade in potential evils I guess.

 

@Emries Does that mean you are buying tokens for real money? It would be interesting to find out how many veterans actually do that.

 

I have bought one 30 pack of tokens just to show support for Owls, and am planning to do so again sometime when I have to (I figured this would happen and got a ton (400+) of silver tokens before the transfer so I'm mostly ok after using those now).

I agree though- it would be interesting to see how many veterans have actually bought the alternate revenue source option. I just wouldn't be a very good case study of your average veteran consumer because I buy everything and then buy more things to give to friends and then buy more things for later (I have a ton of money to spend). Just to give you an idea, me and another pox veteran were entertaining the idea to buy Pox from SOE after Hawk (or was it Sok) left quite a few months back just because we could since it seemed like a sign of decline in price XD

 

The discussion here should not be "I want this all without doing anything for it" If you want grinding to be easier, make suggestions, if you want alternate ways to get tokens, make suggestions, but saying "I'll quit playing if I don't get free level 3 champions" is silly. Levels do not need removed from the game. As earlier stated tokens help sustain this free to play game, grinding will boost sales, that's how games work.

 

The only silly person that obviously ash't read the thread either is you.

 

If I needed tokens I'd buy them for cash. $7.50 for 30 tokens doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. They're not necessary and even though I've been cp'ing a bg in ranked and getting trounced, it is very exciting when I pass the 100 and 200 mark and get to get an upgrade so I wouldn't drop the CP system.As I can't afford to make a competitive bg, it's become a fun game of "how long can I hold out" and has given ranked some appeal to me. I could use public bgs but without the cp gain it just feels like a waste of time.

Plus, have you looked at the trader lately for tokens? People are bidding like 1 rare for 5 platinum tokens, so even though there is a lot of complaining about the cost of them, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of demand.

 

It isn't silly, everyone makes their own choices as to what is worth their time. If you annoy your players, there is a larger chance that the player will go elsewhere than that the player will feel inclined to spend any money. If somebody says "I'd rather leave than be annoyed like that", that's feedback, not silly.

No it's not. Creating artificial annoyances is a short-term business model. Zynga is one of the worst offenders who used to do really well with that philosophy, but recently consumers have started to wisen up to such tactics and Zynga is now in some deep trouble. The ones who soar are the ones who focus on delighting their customers and then provide options to spend money for things the players actually want (think Dota 2, LoL, countless others).

This isn't hippie theory, it actually works and is a generally accepted truth among game developer communities. For some reason, players seem to have a harder time wrapping their head around the idea that not annoying players is actually a good thing.

And before you accuse me of being a freeloader, let me tell you that I used to spend way more money than is reasonable on this game. But I spent that money on things I actually want. At no time did I ever, or would I ever, spend money just to bypass an artificial annoyance. I do not appreciate being manipulated like that. If you have my goodwill, you will get my money.

Case in point, @Emrie said that he bought a pack of tokens, not because he needed them, but because he wanted to support the developers. Why is it so hard to believe that people spend money on a game they love because they want to, even if they don't have to?

 

Tokens are not the way to go for "sustaining the game".

Levelling runes isn't fun in a competitive environment.
Grinding runes up in solo with cheesey BGs is not fun.
Paying money to properly use runes I already paid for is not fun.

If they want an alternate source of income, make fun content. font skins were suggested and I liked that. New avatars, taunts, etc.

Don't make people buy XP for the rune they just bought. The worst thing you can do is make someone buy something twice.

 

That's all we wanted hear - glad you're working on it! Thanks Senshu.
Now... what about bringing back Taunt Tokens? ;P

 

Do u think so? I samon champs kill 10-15 enemy than finish campagain, and after 20min of wasted time 2-5xp per champion try to calculate how much time you need to lvl whole BG. Before you finish it u just drop playing because it is boring.

 

You just have to put down one champ and surrender and repeat. Each time gets you 10 CP on that champion. You're doing it wrong.

 

- I did my dailies today... It was fun ... my scarlet wings that needed cp got 15-17 each, I didn't just deploy and surrender. I also got gold. I didn't hate it but yes it was still a grind.

- When I started league of legends I "had" to level up before I was even allowed to play ranked. I also "had" to grind IP to get runes or I was at a disadvantage (no , there is not even an option to buy runes with currency).

- After I complete my daily quest in hearthstone in order to gain more gold I "have" to win against a real player that is not on my friends list at a rate of "10" gold per 3 wins. This is a grind, there is also a strict gold limit per day (300?) gained this way.

- It could be more rewarding and/or "fun" to cp champs in Pox for sure. But its all a grind, whether you didn't realize it or not. The idea is to dress it up, but your grinding for sure.

- The real issue is make upgrades less world changing and champ defining but that's a big undertaking to fix. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water just cuz "Im a customer and I don't like it..." that mentality gets old quick. You can spend 1 million dollars in McDonalds...but best believe if you demand a 7th chicken nugget for no reason....your gonna have to break one in half to get 7.

tl;dr - They gotta make money so give them another way, instead of just being the baddest hipster on the block...we all know that's "Squishy"

 

so, if you can get in and out of a game in 30 seconds each time, that's 10xp per 30 sec over a 15 champion BG needing 3,000 xp total.

So, 2 and a half hours of that...

 

So yeah you're better off working at McDonalds at minimum wage for 2 and a half hours. That nets you a whole 2 and a half token packs! But wait... that only equals to roughly 1500-ish xp total.

At least you can take pride that you're getting free stuff faster than working at McDonald's?
(My point is that free stuff is free in cost but not in labor)

Again, could definitely be increased to what we all previously said in this thread. 2-4 games to CP everything in a BG won't kill you

 

Are you serious? The game is plain unplayable for any noob and for lots of vets.
Yes, there are few people who play a single bg for ages, or ones who play this game on forums, but we already have less people in q than pre-transfer.
I could understand if it was a serious issue or something, but not stupid tokens for pox sake.