So I bought a box, and it wasn't exactly satisfying

Before you fleece me, please consider these two points:

- Around 2009 I spent a ton of money on the game, buying boxes pretty impulsively. Meanwhile I got rid of a large part of my collection, but among other things I still got 16 Legendaries, which is now the equivalent of about $640 with average luck (holy cow).

- I know that rarity is not everything. I could make a KF BG with 10 Legendaries, but currently prefer a Kanen BG with 0 Legendaries and it's pretty awesome. But since that's the case, my only reason to buy packs is for the sake of collecting, in which case rarity is indeed everything.


So after the patch, $20 seemed like a reasonable amount to put into the game, and naturally I got an expansion box. Now I got rather unlucky by only receiving one Exotic from it, but that is still the average expected amount more or less (a bit less than 2), so it isn't _totally_ unexpected either.

But here's the thing: I felt nothing about it. When I used to buy boxes back in the day, it was kind of exciting. I knew I'd get at least one rune of the highest rarity (sans Harbingers) and it was exciting to see if maybe I'd get a Lick King or Ranger Elite. Those sold for $50 and more in the single rune store.

A lot has changed since then, and what I get today feels almost meaningless. Worse, I don't feel like my chances of receiving anything of real value would be particularly high if I'd be to buy additional boxes.

I'm not complaining about it. I can play the game completely, I don't have to buy boxes. All I am saying is, that right now buying boxes (let alone packs) does absolutely nothing for me and the only reason for me to spend money is to reward the developers.

This got me thinking about why that is, and if it could be changed somehow. To begin with, let me start with some stats. Buying a box gets me:

- A guaranteed 12.5% of the exotics from the latest expansion.
- That's approximately 0.45% of all the exotics in the game (the second highest rarity).
- Approximately 6.25% of the Legendaries from the latest expansion (assuming an average of half a Legendary per box).
- That's approximately 0.3% of all the Legendaries in the game.

So to own just 3% of the highest rarity in the game, I'd have to spend about $200.

Now I don't know about you, but to me that just isn't enticing in the slightest.

Let's compare this to what one box would have gotten me in 2009:

- A guaranteed 12.5% of the exotics from the latest expansion (by then the highest rarity).
- That's about 1.25% of the total exotics at that time (Dawn of Elements)

So to own 2.5% of the highest rarity in the game, I only had to buy about two boxes at whatever the price for that used to be (and chances are that it would be more like 5%, since a box should contain almost 2 exotics by average).

I don't know what to do with all this. But it does seem significant to me.

Another thing which makes me feel less excited about opening packs is that I really can't think of many champs which are as prolific as the old Lich King, Ranger Elite, Menalaus, etc used to be. Those really stood out, in BGs which mostly consisted of an economic lineup with one or two superchamps (IS was a bit of an exception with its almost mandatory Dwarven Kings + Euan or Talgar, which at that time was considered super expensive) and yet you had a pretty decent chance of pulling one of those in every box.

Nowadays half the champs feel like superchamps to me, which are almost interchangeable. Maybe things like Angels stand out for a while, but then it's so unlikely to pull the flavour of the month Legendary, that it almost seems like a non-factor.

Again, I'm not complaining, because I can play and getting the occasional pack for gold is good enough for me. I'm happy to occasionally spend some money to support the devs. It's just that there is zero incentive for me to make an impulse buy if I ever have some spare money, because the perceived value isn't there. And that just feels wrong to me.

I don't see any way to solve this without massively devaluing the current stock though. Maybe it isn't a problem at all, and maybe it even levels the playing field, because buying boxes really doesn't get you that much in the grand scheme of things. I really don't know, but I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions about this.

 

Well I'm gonna say this again here.

Legendary runes MUST be craftable with shards. 100% HAS to happen.

That will help drive down prices (see the prices of exos on poxbox lately?) and make things more accessible.

 

I think that RIGHT NOW it feels like this to some people, but as time goes on and new comes come out this problem will naturally disapear. That being said I think the way legendaries are aquired could do with some sort of change.

I also believe the single rune store would still be beneficial to Pox

 

Yeah I guess that could help. It still won't feel the same, but at least the difference between Exotics and Legendaries would be less dramatic, and not getting one in a box wouldn't make it seem so worthless.

 

What I do know is that I'd be much more inclined to buy a single Legendary than a $20 pack with only a 50% chance of getting one. I don't think I would pay $40 for a Legendary, but something reasonable.

I remember when the Angels came out, I bought a crazy amount and had 2x of each at some point... I think they were like $20 each? Or even less? In the end that was already questionable value since they weren't exactly limited after all, but it still felt like much better value to me than a box now.

The way I see it, the boxes are fine for a normal player who wants a decent amount of content from the latest expansion. But maybe there should be something else for collectors to spend money on.

 

I agree on Legendaries should be craftable, but please do not let it be attainable so easily. Actually I'd rather have Legendaries to still be Legendaries in terms of rarity.

But....

PREVENT Lonx Chieftain or the likes to be a Legendary. I'm no ST player, but still. How does it feel if you wanna play a theme and "oh, you kinda need this Legendary rune... but oh well, I think I'll survive" and then you face a mirror match against someone with that LEG rune. Such an advantage is insurmountable to sheer skills.

Theme-enablers should NOT be Legendaries. Ofc, Theme-supporters, like say Voltaic Slag from Slags, or Garu Chosen in Garus, or Skywing Eminent in Skywings. Those are what I considered "you can survive without it, but ur gonna do way better with it" (okay maybe not Eminent, but you got my point)

I don't really think every rarity should be attainable so easily. If forge-able, LEGs should be like 6-8x Exo forge price.

 

It´s funny you would say that, because I feel the exact opposite. MUST is kind of too much, dont you think, since it´s based off solely on your own thoughts.
I for one think this system is awesome. It gives players a reason to grind packs and boxes while giving them a cherry on top of the cake, per say.
On a totally different note, though, it´s funny to see all these new/old faces (not you Greysand) flooding the forums as they have been an active part of the community for the last few years, when they havent.
Not saying people are entitled to their opinion, but posting here as what they say are facts is hilarious.

 

I always thought consensus states that Pox needs an active community = new faces? (since like eons ago)

 

Well, yeah, it just bothers me when these guys think that whatever they say is the truth, when it clearly is not.

 

There are a number of reasons why I think you have to put leg in the forge.

1- It's not like new players aren't going to see them. They are and they are going to want to know how to get them. When you explain that they ONLY drop from packs/boxes at 5% chance people are going to avoid the game.

2- They are essential for themes. Leg runes aren't some kind of cherry on top for certain BGs they are key runes. Lonx cheiftan, in a lonx BG, etc.

3- The value difference between LEG and exo is untenable. Right now the highest craftable exo on PB is imp vixen @ 73,500 credits. The LEG runes that people are actively looking for are all between 100,000 and 220,000. Not to mention this is driving people off site to poxbox (no offense I use their service) but forcing people's hand especially new players to go offsite to acquire the runes they want is not a good idea at all.


There is literally no harm that could be done to this game by making leg runes available in the forge. Only benefits. We still have LEs that will remain LE if you are into collecting for value, but leg runes NEED to be accessible and cheap if this game is going to continue.

 

I agree boxes underwhelm atm unless you get a sweet legendary - but that's pretty much always been the case with non-new runes.

 

In response to @Greysands22

1) If the game had a constant influx of new players, it would actually be much rarer to see Legendaries. At ~$40 per LEG or around two months of regular playing, that's not something beginners will be flooded with. Of course that's a nasty chicken and egg problem, the less beginners there are, the harsher the environment is for new players. I would go as far as to say that at this point, a drive to acquire new players (e.g. on Steam) would have to shield them completely from the established community until they have reached a certain level of competence.

2) This could change though with The Great Rebalance we are being told about. Or it might not.

3) Can't argue with that.

I don't know if Legendaries need to be craftable. I think I would feel better with one guaranteed Legendary per box, 10% chance to get a Legendary with each pack, 20% chance to get an Exotic. But trade sharks will probably scream in terror at that suggestion?

The facts are, that there are now 160 highest rarity runes (Legendaries) compared to the 80 Exotics during Dawn of Elements. Expansions still receive 8 highest rarity runes each (maybe this will change?). At the same time, chance to draw a highest rarity rune in a box has been reduced from about 190% to 50%. That doesn't seem right.

An Exotic just isn't what it used to be, and we shouldn't pretend that it's still the same objective value.

 

Forge is broken , only lazy people craft something in forge. It is at least 2 times cheaper to trade what you need from PoxBox.
Top Exo cost 500 shards > low exo i shreded for 50 shard so u need 10 low exo in PoxBOx 10 low exo cost at least 200.000point and for this 200.000 point you can buy top legendary or 2 top Exo.
If you shred top exo it is shreded for 100 shard and in this case 5 top exo cost at least 200.000point in poxbox.
While PoxBox exist it is more cost efficient to trade there if compare with RuneForge

 

I'm pretty sure numbers are the same in Ukraine and England, so if you'd bother to fact check you'd know it's 150.

 

Sorry Sir, some runes cost 150 to shred and than it is 1.5 times cheper to use PoxBox than RuneForge . 150 or 100 doesn't change fact that Forge is broken.

 

So.. let's consider the fact that your argument is obviously vacuous.

If using the forge were better than using PoxBox, why would anyone use PoxBox? Rune forging allows you to get runes that are not in stock in PoxBox, why didn't you consider that?

 

The Dude( i dont know his name ) who run PoxBox is very wise man. If rare Legendary become available to all via Forge , he just change prices. In any case PoxBox be better than forge even if Legendary become craftable.
In most of trades i use PoxBox , but i must admit than website like that just ruin economy and in-game trade factor.

 

Although I would be interested in crafting Legendary runes, you must also consider how this would affect the market:

1) Does this also mean they can be sacrificed? If so, this will cause a change in the cheap legendary market for their sacrificing values.

2) Being able to craft them may discourage cash purchases more knowing nearly everything somebody wants will be available to them in due time.

The main thing to consider is #1. But also keep in mind that the current Legendary market has to be grown into. Currently, the only way a legendary will fully leave the market is if the player quits entirely and does not dump their runes anywhere. Without being able to sacrifice legendary runes, we will only see growth in the legendary market as people buy packs/boxes. Hypothetically speaking, say 50 people were to fully complete dailies in a month and accumulate gold to purchase a box. Based on the 5%, that means 25 Legendaries will enter the market if it is in a stagnant state. Factor in release days and we're probably talking 25-50 more boxes and 12-25 more Legendaries be introduced into the market. With all that, you can say that there would roughly be 375 Legendaries entering the market in a year (25 a month plus 3 releases).

Granted, they may not be the ones needed to balance the market out, but the current demand spread is already lowering.

 

If you Open 10 Box and get 10 runes with cost of 9k , you are loser. pick and averge prices 9-40k.

 

I'm not actually sure what we're arguing about. Hm.

But yes, PoxBox will always be better or close to the forge prices.