so let's be frank.

Discussion in 'Savage Tundra' started by calisk, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    but i wanna be dagda


    also, coord tower opnrf ?
     
  2. Hiyashi

    Hiyashi I need me some PIE!

    Guess I was totally wrong then~ Never saw somebody getting an Ant up to such damage levels. Thought we were talking about maybe 15dmg per ant to the shrine. Skirmisher makes perfect sense then. :)
     
  3. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    Ice storm was recently nerfed leave as is

    Gale force changes perfect

    Cleansing storm changes are good but it shouldn't cleanse all champs in aoe only friendly and it kinda reminds me of that FS cleansing spell except u don't wait a turn

    Swap changes are fine

    Summon ant changes are fine

    Snowstorm raise frost damage up to 5?

    Deep freeze aoe dropped by 2?(is currently aoe 5) not understanding the non flyers

    Lockdown looks nice

    Nice ST variant of vortex

    Rebound no

    Retreat it's cheaper +1
     
  4. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    it's on my list, but it doesn't really do much aside from it's one ability, aside from a cost increase which never does anything
    ok first as mentioned before Ice storm needs to be on par with the other aoe's in the faction to even be considered as st having variable spell selection, this means I want the players to have options when choosing spells, and i cannot see me ever choosing ice storm in it's current form over the suggested snow storm or deep freeze, and I'm sure as hell not creating two more ice storms, so the only option is to move a little bit of ice storms utility around to other spells.

    as long as ice storm grounds it will be the go to spell that does it all.

    removing grounding and putting it on snow storm is a reason to consider snow storm over ice storm, deep freeze will damage flyers, but it won't freeze flyers this was to prevent the obvious combo of ice storm+deep freeze which I didn't want to happen, now you would need to go snow storm + deep freeze to hit a flyer with the freeze.

    snow storm is quite well costed at 35 nora compared to it's sister spell sandstorm, which is played in almost all sand terrain bg's. I can't see doing any more to this without breaking it.

    deep freeze being aoe-3 over aoe 5 was done for two reasons, the first being that aoe 5 with arctic flight is just bad, the second is I don't want ST to be the aoe spam faction again, deep freeze will be great in the right bg's. This was costed to match burning sands but with a little less damage due to amp potential but a more relevant status effect.

    not quite sure what your issue with rebound is?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
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  5. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    after thinking about it a bit more, retrieve should probably be 40nora, with a 15 nora refund on friendly targets, at 30 nora it's too easy to win a font battle in a 1 v 1.

    40 is about right for it considering it is weaker then vortex, and the friendly effect is worth about 25 nora so seems right.
     
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  6. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    Rebound brings a lot of utility to the table removing all equips from play even if there is a cost refund and I usually pair it up with a few equipment of my own so it works as a shatter but also gives me a refund on equipment like staff of ascendance when the benefits are already reaped but this is probably more of me being selfish about changing a spell

    Edit: snowstorm not sure how changing 3 frost to 5 would break it even if amped that may be 8 damage with 50% amp
     
  7. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!


    yep i've used the current version of rebound probably more then anyone else ever has. but the effect is very very situational or built for gimicky trick decks. it can't be used in a deck that uses friend;y equips because you end up hurting yourself as much as the opponent.

    this version gives st a practical equipment answer that can be used defensively and offensively in just as many interesting ways as the current rebound.

    it doesn't leave open to abuse or trick decks like the current rebound does, and fills a more streamlined role that any player can enjoy.
     
  8. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    It's still inhibiting to use it defensively as your champ becomes unequippable
     
  9. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    not if you use it defensively against negative equips.

    i.e I put a blight ring, or a shimmering flower on your champ, now he can't have it put on him again the next turn, nor could they put a different neg equip on like a withering fern.

    sure you can't equip them, but that's a small price to pay to get the full use of your champ.

    yes this doesn't play well with the trick decks that wanted to continuously re-equip a single champ for benefits, but imo that is not really what rebound should be designed around.
     
  10. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    But my champ is now unequippable champs that receive those equips are usually really good and your opponent is looking to inhibit them. I guess it's situationally good and situationally bad
     
  11. KingJad

    KingJad I need me some PIE!

    Also I was comparing the spell to the spell shatter still can't decide if ours is worth the extra Nora it cost when it grants ur opponent a refund and gives our champ unequippable
     
  12. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    cost might be a bit high hard to say
     
  13. s4ndm4ns

    s4ndm4ns I need me some PIE!

    I like the idea to have spell based equip removal, i wouldnt mind if the 50% refund was dropped too.
    Also Calisk, how about suggesting to fix blinding reflection to work as real redeploy
     
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  14. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    well that partly balances it.

    st isn't meant to have hugely efficient equipment removal,as for the "shatter" the spell it actually hurts your own champ to shatter defensively, where this one could be considered a buff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  15. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I wouldn't because re-triggering on deploys is something that would take a very large amount of consideration, alot of potential abuses will occur and as soon as someone finds one that sticks it'll end up getting cost increase after cost increase till it became near unplayable, only to find a home in the trick decks that abuse it.

    it's an effect that wouldn't be permitted to exist long term.

    now I had a suggestion for it that would fit it into the crystal theme but would require new coding. for now i want to focus on the basic more simple spells to fix up using preexisting code samples.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
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  16. s4ndm4ns

    s4ndm4ns I need me some PIE!

    BTW, i like aoe3 cleansing storm but it needs to affect friendly only
     
  17. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    that would in a lot of ways be a buff this is intended to bring cleansing storm down a slight notch from auto include, sadly st doesn't have other spell/relic based cleanse methods so I suspect it will remain an auto include for now.

    anyway in this way it's an AOE and follows the targeting rules of AOE's, if you don't want it to effect enemies avoid hitting them with the aoe like you would an ice storm.

    honestly as it is you will still have a pretty easy time avoiding enemies. so I'm debating what was mentioned and would probably remove the heal while bring up a spell like blinding reflection as a spot based cleanse alternative.

    this is probably the suggestion I'm least happy with btw...feels too plain and yet not enough.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  18. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    I'm not sure what a good change for Cleansing Storm would be, but the AoE idea makes it very similar to Herbal Antidote.
     
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  19. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    ya and Is has a similar version as well with consecrate earth although limited to paldins, clerics and priests.

    I was using herbal antidote as my basis for the cleansing storm change honestly, except with 5 hp heal to friendly only instead of the immunity.

    I have a feeling I can do better though honestly flavor wise.
     
  20. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    i mean, the thing about coord tower for me is that encouraged (really hope i'm not confusing myself with names right now) is a really strong ability that relatively few things have, otherwise. being able to continually get it on to double-tappers or just good targets for bonus damage (which is most things) is amazing.

    used to do a deck with a heavy focus on getting AoW out and then quickening, and the stack-up was pretty ridiculous


    basically, encouraged is one of those abilities that it kinda hurts me to see it so spread(able). having said that, i don't know what i would do to the tower (or anything else) to change it
     

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