So this seven muslim countries travel ban

interesting that you think i am somehow fooling you by simply giving you the facts.

i wont be fooled by people saying its a muslim ban when i can just read the law and see its not. i will stick with facts thank you.

 

@ssez Would you agree that the ban is effectively a ban on Muslims from those 7 countries? Given that Muslim is the predominant religion in each of them, and there is an exception for religious minorities, and that you believe sects will not be given attention, just major religions as a whole?

 

I don't see why conservatives are trying to get around the word "muslim ban". Yes, the EO was worded as a travel ban for obvious reasons. Yes, they will present it as a travel ban for those reasons. Yes, to the press, they will confirm that it is a travel ban. But no one is fooled here. It IS a muslim ban.

Furthermore, I don't really care how they word it, or how they accomplish it or who on this forum and around the world is offended by it. I DONT want to see whats happening in Europe and other places where this filth is worming their way in only to join up with a cell once here. I get that many of innocent muslims will have to find a DIFFERENT (note, they still don't have to stay where they are) place in which to immigrate, but thats the way it is. Until we can besure and sort out who is who, none of the group that holds the potential offenders are given the privilege of coming to this great nation. No one who matters, as far as decisions around this issue, could give two shits about what the snowflakes think, obviously. Whine about it all you want. Changes nothing. Thats the way it is. Done.

It's not America's job to save the world. We will further our interests and offer aid in ways that secure our immediate and future interests. We're like the worst place on the earth that anyone in their right mind would want to be, according to all your previous whining, so I don't really see a problem.

Now, please continue with the projectile tears.

 

effectively?

with exceptions it almsot literally reads every non muslim is possible exempt since everything but muslim would be a minority.

 

see this is the stance I would more happily see conservatives have. it's someone I could debate if I felt the need to since they aren't hiding behind technicalities and denying fact.

what's happening in the eu is disgusting, and preventing that should be top priority, my opinions on the odds of it happening in the us, and their personal responsibility in destabilizing the middle east causing this refugee crisis on the other hand is a different matter but I can see where you are coming from.

 

I think the odds are high. The only reason it doesnt happen is because it is stopped/prohibited in some way before it happens. People say this is going to be turned into jihadi propaganda but the truth is, Jihadi's can take the color orange and turn it into propaganda. They don't need any extra help hating and killing non-Muslims, regardless of what any leader/country does. Given the opportunity, they will kill as many of us as they possibly can before they die, up to our entire extinction. There is no other threat that compares to that level of mindset. For that reason, I'm personally ok with whatever measures are necessary to keep that intent and hatred off of my dirt.

I wish it wasn't that way. I realize that America was built by immigrants, but we're not in the "come to America and build your dream" phase anymore. All of the world's dirt has been claimed and sorted. Now it's just trying to get to a better place if you possibly can. I can emphasize with that plight. But I cannot allow that to happen if at the same time I must make my self vulnerable to those who want nothing less than my full obliteration.

 

I agree, I don't want to see the violence that is happening elsewhere happen here. My concern is this gives the terrorists more fuel to attract members. I also agree that it is not the job of the US to protect the world. I would like to see a UN that actually has some teeth. Let individual countries defend themselves, including the US, and if a country needs help because it is under attack by another, the UN can intervene instead of the US.

 

Do they really need fuel to attract members? Honestly? Lets break that down. These jihadis are force fed to hate the west from day one. They have easily swallowed a lie that they will receive rewards for killing themselves. Are they really the type of people who are going to be on the fence about it? "Well, I was going to be a proper contributing muslim citizen, but since Trump is a bad guy, I'm now going full jihadi". Regardless of who leads, regardless of what decision is made, they will make it into recruting material and continue to recruit jihadis who want to kill Americans without limit.

 

well the difference between the us and the eu is pretty obvious though.

the eu has open borders to the refugees allowing thousands of military age men into their country with little to no vetting.

the us has an ocean between them and a 2 year waiting period with extensive vetting process on immigrants done by nsa and cia, with a shorter process for refugees but still extensive.

that difference is pretty essential since it makes a lot of what's happening over their near impossible to happen, I mean the us would need to become ridiculously lax in comparison to what they currently do for that to occur. could a bomber sneak into the us as a refugee...I won't deny it's a possibility, but could you get roaming gangs of **** squads like in the eu, I highlly doubt that.

 

Lets also remember that there are going to be case by case immigrant exceptions made in spite of the EO. Yes, it will be slow and invasive for that individual. But then again, they could have turned north and strolled right into Canada but chose not to.

 

absolutely!

i feel like i can have a discussion with you and its not just lame talking points. I am not even sure which way you lean, i sort of assume more left but i tend to not lump a person as simply left or right since my own personal beliefs span both.

what we are getting down to is they reason as to "why" and i think baskits post above touches on the heart of the issue and how much of "average" america see it.

 

well canada has some pretty extreme vetting as well, and we also have a strict limit on refugees per year of which we've hit.

so don't think anybody else is getting in this year anyway under refugee status, unless they increase that amount in light of something new

 

lol "denying fact" from the guy who denys facts is funny to me.

 

The point was, the destination choices are plentiful.

 

probably. Since the EU has an open border policy I do wonder why they don't flee their. I can only assume it's not as open as it sounds

 

one point why words matter is by the left using the incorrect term "muslim ban" they feed into creating more hate from muslims. many who use that term are more "team left" than "team usa". if they were actually concerned about the US over the left they wouldnt hype a false narrative. now many in the left here arent from the actual US so that is obviously reflected in not being "team usa" they want to hype it to muslims as a msulim ban which will increase tension from muslims and possibly create more terrorists. as an actual citizen i see that as obviously damaging to "team usa".

 

I applaud you for not hiding behind the first layer bullshit like others have done, but I suspect there might be another layer which you aren't seeing.

Is it really the threat of terrorism that is worrying you? or is it that you simply don't like Muslims/Islam for their culture, race, or religious dogma?

Because, if we could actually start talking about things honestly then I think there would be more agreement between people than you think (ok, not about race, but culture and dogma probably).

 

Badger, not going to defend myself against your assumptions lol.

 

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but worrying about terrorism seems like worrying about being struck by lightning. I work in a public gallery in central London, and sometimes earn extra money doing security shifts, so i'm probably more at risk than pretty much anyone... but no one here actually worries about it on a personal level. If I was living in Yokelville USA, the chance of islamic terrorism effecting me would be close to absolute zero, and yet the residents of Yokelville seem the most concerned out of anyone.

I therefore have to think that there is some displacement going on.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but seems as though a ton of the attacks are performed by natives who are radicalized by these terrorist groups (normally online). Policies like this raise the threat of this happening surely?