Sp is out of control

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Thailady, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. Thailady

    Thailady Well-Known Member

    Is this balanced? really?
    I'm at the point, refusing playing boring meta and enjoying trying new decks, to insta quit when i see the enemy playing Sp.
    Over efficient champions with nora discount (faction bonus)... why not? :
    Whenever you deploy a Champion, you gain 8% of its Nora cost. When that champion is destroyed, you gain 4% of its Nora cost. THIS IS HUGE. 70 nora champ? no.. u only pay 62.... ooook.

    Voils are op from ever and now more.... c'mon: all units with flight (so be prepared to loose ur fonts on map), insane damage, 50-60 hp, all roles covered , swarm and more.
    And what about the champs every SP player use: mika (iper valued abilities for what? 60 nora? lol), Hyaenid Dreamcrusher (bam, 16 damge on deploy, from 2 screens away, on ur 40 hp champion...and after still has range 5 electric attack....), Whirling Quarry (seism, whirling stones, rock trap/stone barrage,,, AND 2 defence, 50 base hp, small size..... lol), sonic elemental (annoying has Firk, and with teleport+sonicburst u cannot deny 20-30 insta damage).
    Cyclops eye belt? 20 nora... lol
  2. xaznsoulx

    xaznsoulx Supreme Dream Team 夢想 隊

  3. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist


    Your tears are delicious
  4. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    We know SP is dumb with Voils atm, but your math skills (or rather a lack of such) terrify me.
  5. Thailady

    Thailady Well-Known Member

    why? 8%+4% = 12% discount in my house...
  6. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Assuming the bonus rounds up:
    8% of 70 is 5.6, goes up to 6. 64 on deploy. It dies. 4% is 2.8, rounds up to 3. 61 total. I know FW bonus rounds down to make it stronger as proven by Bile Zombies and Chattering Maws having CD 2 instead of 3. SP one might be rounding up instead. If it doesn't round up but rounds down, the cost is 63 (5 + 2).

    Still - I don't agree with the logic it's 61-63 nora payment because of that 4%, it's like saying something costs X nora less because it has Soulsift. The bonus is dumb, but let's take care of voils themselves first before you bite into the bonus.
  7. IronStylus

    IronStylus I need me some PIE!

    Yeah, SP is getting dumb, those nora costs are just ridiculous, mika should be nerfed asap (summons fesh with 14 damage and instant 5 AP, come on.... -.-') this game hasn't been in such terrible state ever. Also, avalanche - this thing is so dumb. 10 AOE dmg, knockback that lets you do so many plays, not counting ground effect that can instakill a flying unit over chasm. ALL FOR 45 NORA!
    And where is the spot cleanse for FS and UD? Those factions suck without it

    This post is meant to be sarcastic. I think the faction is more or less okay.
  8. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    The FS bonus is particularly noticable in terms of the amount of nora gained and options unlocked for the FS player (as he effectively has a half a font extra) on the 2-font FW map in the current rotation.
  9. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Been saying this since forever
  10. damnfoolishyeti

    damnfoolishyeti I need me some PIE!

    Isn't fs just directly more powerful of a bonus than sp? Sp would have to deploy every turn to even come close to matching no? Since this became a nerf fs thread along the way clearly.
  11. IronStylus

    IronStylus I need me some PIE!

    UD bonus is worth 8 nora per champion.
    Kthir bonus is worth 8 nora per champion.
    FS bonus is worth 6 nora per turn.
    SL bonus is worth ~8 nora per champion (literally tough 2 excluding spells)
    SP bonus is worth 9 nora per 75 nora champion when it dies.
    meanwhile I can compare IS bonus only to spell resistance, which is worth... 3 nora.

    Of course this is irony.
    Bonuses are fine and really flavorful imo, not a topic to whine so much about this.
    SireofSuns likes this.
  12. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Bonuses no longer weigh into the faction's nora costs, just saying. :p
  13. IronStylus

    IronStylus I need me some PIE!

    Sorry, I don't understand
  14. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Faction bonuses used to be included into Champions' nora cost in the past, which is why KFers complaining about their nora costs used to be common. :p
  15. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    If only SL bonus were even close to tough 2

    Also IS bonus is vastly superior to the spell resistance, which halves spell damage taken.

    FS and SP bonus are so much better because pure nora will always beat spend nora, why you ask? Because versatility.
    JellyBerry, Bondman007 and Etherielin like this.
  16. IronStylus

    IronStylus I need me some PIE!

    Woah, I didn't know that, today I learned.
    SL bonus is comparable to tough 2, which is 10 nora, but when it doesn't work on spells (and currently psychic ping and some stuff) I assumed it could be about 8 nora.
    About IS bonus: Spells on average deal about 12 damage (of course there are spells that deal more, but whatever, it's just for sake of comparison), which is reduced by half with the bonus.
    About versatility: you can spend nora on deploying champ/playing spell/equipment or relic, but having Kthir's speed you have more versatility of playing your champs around the map, like kite and position. I think Kthir bonus actually gives you MORE versatility of playing a turn with its current bonus. Is KF bonus any problematic?
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  17. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    You're talking about on-field versatility but forget about the off-the-field advantage FS and SP bonuses grant.
    By having more resources available to them, they can do the following:
    - Deploy more bodies to thwart your mobility.
    - Play more spells to wither you down.
    - Deploy more relics to support his champs.
    - Use more equips to boost his already existing board.

    The economical advantage of SP and FS bonuses will always outweigh any other one as they translate into multiple layers by simply giving them more options on the field. I'd gladly lose 1 SPD if it means that over a relatively short time I generate enough nora to have access to 1 step more than my enemy, ultimately setting him back to - oftentimes - a point of no return. The versatility behind extra economy will always be stronger than on-field advantages.
  18. IronStylus

    IronStylus I need me some PIE!

    @Etherielin Well, I mean, you can't just 'buy' 1 speed on any champion having that nora. I will quote something in particual
    They don't have 'more resources' but just another kind of resource, which just directly lets you play a rune from runedock. You are mitigating speed as a resource, which on the other hand lets your champions manouver around map better for example. It would look differently If every champion in forglar had 'bonus:speed' upgrade as well as access to spell resistance, +4 damage etc. That would be the versatility level that is problematic.
  19. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    In most factions, bonuses give straightforward buffs to champions. That's only not true in FS and SPas the generated/refunded nora can be used for anything(as BP just said). What makes FS's slightly superior is that you don't have to deploy champions to benefit from it given it's the only bonus that's completely independent from champions, which allows the aforementioned bonus to give more nora per champion than the apparent 6.

    Bonuses should go like this, regarding nora efficiency in decrescent order:


    I can elaborate my opinion, but I don't see people disagreeing if they read this thread and make very simple math.

  20. Axeraiser

    Axeraiser I need me some PIE!

    SP has been OP for the longest time. Something that's been pointed out time and time again is that it never got the attention because it wasn't a popular faction to play and the low player base further exasperated that's. Now, for whatever reason, it's popular and lots of people are playing it all the bullshit is becoming apparent. I told you so.
    Etherielin likes this.

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