So, I've been trying to make a ST/FW split deck for the Obsidian Venger I got a while back. I figure that ST's swap and ice slow down will complement FW's zombies nicely. I'm very new however, so I'm not sure I can do this right. Link to the deck- http://poxbase.com/deck/CaC4Tc6C1mCg ciNcfLc8bcaNCiicpDS6ms7@s19s7bS2LS13sns4Vs6fr8e2X The problem is that I have a very low budget as I've had little inspiration to play lately. The only non common/uncommon cards from that list that I don't have are the Witch, Corruptor, and Mobilization, but I think I can get a few rares. If you need explanation for any of the cards, please say so. Something important I should note is that the soulpainters will basically stand in for the extra corruptor/witch I may need. EDIT: I've realised that unless Venger gets a buff in the future, he won't be as useful as many other legendaries. If you can think of one that would fit especially well in an ST/FW Swap deck, (Im open to changing this deck so long as its FW/ST swap in this case), please tell. Im kind of attached to Venger as he is my first legendary, however being able to weigh the options would better tell me if I should trade. Also, IK there are plenty of exotics that would work better, but at the least I want to still have a legendary of somewhat equal value if I were to trade him. Thanks for reading!
This could actually work pretty well as a slow-roll modification on the old RMH decks. Off the bat, I'm not sure about the Soul Painters or the Bonecrushers. There are probably more efficient options for those slots. If you are looking for good zombies, Zombie Giant, Wandering Zombie, and Fleshblight are all good, although a bit slower. What you would want to swap the Soul Painters out for depends on how you are using them, but some extra range looks like it could help.
That... makes a lot of sense actually. Well, in that case, the extra Corruptor and Witch would sound like good units to fill those slots.
Yeah, sirius was correct. Also good swap units in a pinch. Thanks a lot kalasle, I'll have to look into the old RHM decks, see what I can come up with. I used the bonecrushers primarily to keep the enemy in my AOE overtime abilities such as the afflicted/ Venger Desecrate earth, but perhaps the thralls would do that well enough.
Not sure how much help the old lists will be: RMH was a deck from way back, like first few years of Pox. A lot has changed since then. Even so, if you can dredge a couple up it would probably be a good history less at least, and also give you a sense of how that style plays. As far as Bonecrusher, if you want something to keep the opponent still, I think working on a different champ with constrict or stun would be a better option. Bonecrusher is just too overcosted.
I like your idea, and your mechanic is decent, but you are using the wrong split. Because you want to stall, using ST's impeding snow is not efficient enough, and it also keeps your own zombies from melee. Arctic Gift will help but not enough. You also can not move fast enough. An experienced player is going to play a solid stall and ranged-attack game against you. You need more relocation and stall. It might work better if you used Snow Drift Charm, Orb of Frostfall, and Freeze in Place; but I suggest a complete turn away from ST to KF for a FW/KF split that will enhance your mechanic a lot more and give you a +1 AP cap on all your units because of KF's split bonus. I make lore driven builds, so here would be the lore behind the build I suggest: "Our pawns will serve our needs," Timothy the Vile. The strategy is medium to difficult. http://poxbase.com/deck/cubCg+ciNc54chkCfLc6tcwocilc7nC9hctucoQS5S7s5-Sns4fs1_rTE1Ie1te21 Front Game First off, you have Obsidian Avenger, which is a great all around champ but not necessary in the mechanic you are using. It is your choice, but I would sell it and get Timothy the Vile and other affordable runes for this build because Timothy is made for the type of build you are using. The build I gave is built around him in essence and Fleshweavers since both of these units summon zombies. Click Scry on your shrine; then, get to a font and protect it. When you get a chance and have enough nora, drop your Artisan next to your shrine. She will rebuild your shrine with Mason and will protect your KF equips with Craft. From here, you need to start building your mid game mechanic, which is to summon, stall, and swarm. As stated, your summoning units are Timothy and Fleshweavers, so get these out quickly. Spam your summoning abilities and keep your summoned and other zombie melee units in front of your ranged units always until you build critical mass. Give Timothy Summon 3 and Pawn as upgrades and equip him with Crown. Give your Felshweavers Elsari Coven and Swap, or you give Death Charged and Charged Heal for extra health regen. Mid Game You have four mechanics for stalling: Latch On, Entangle, Cocoon, and Rooting. Your Infected and Festering Corpses have Latch On, which cause enemy champs to lumber. This stall technique will be critical later in the game. Entangle is your main early stall technique, and you have four sources: Binding Chains, Entangling Attack, Brambles, and Web. Your Thralls have Binding Chains. Give these Regen and Crushing Charge as upgrades. Use Crushing Charge to close the space gap and Binding Chains to stall. This is a very effective technique. Your Taskmaster and Snakedancer have Entangling Attack, and these are really good. Give Taskmaster Hit and Run and Commander Elf as upgrades. With Hit and Run, he will entangle and run. Give Snakedancer Evasive 3 and Poison and the Ring equip. This guy will do wonders for you because he will regen, evade ranged attacks, and stall melee. Excellent for this build! Brambles are decent for AOE spells and stalling. Do not use them to finish off enemy units though unless necessary because you have a swarm effect to consider. Your Web comes from your Forest's Embrace equips. These little equips serve a double purpose, but I only describe the first one here. Equip on the Corruptor and another to a Fleshweaver. These grant Web, which entangles an enemy champ within 4 spaces every other round, and they also give a small stat boost. On your Corruptor, this equip works great; he can use Corruption without much worry since he will regen. On the Fleshweaver, it works well to stall with Web and then Swap. Rooting is your last stall technique. These are quick-return (6 rounds), cost-efficient (only 25 nora) spells that are great for rooting an enemy champs. The last step in your mechanic is to swarm. You have two swarming features, one that starts and one that finishes. The one that starts is Zombie Plague on Timothy and Infected. Stall an enemy champ, tap it first with Zombie Plague, then, kill it to swarm a Festering Corpse. The one that finishes is Zombie Apocalypse on Stalker and Wandering Zombies. Stall an enemy, bring it down with different attacks, and then kill it with Zombie Apocalypse to swarm a Festering Corpse. When these techniques are used, your zombie army starts to build and becomes very hard to defeat because you are building critical mass. There is however a small issue for you to consider. You have a Corrupter with Soulharvester. This is your soul nora gen outside of fonts. This means that, to use it, you will have to kill off an enemy with it and forego swarming a Festering Corpse, which means slowing down your critical mass production. You do not want two Corruptors in this build. One will do. I am not sure how much of a problem this will become, but be careful to consider your nora gen and swarm balance when killing off an enemy champ. Another thing to consider is your mechanic speed. It is slow because zombies are slow. Do not over extend, or you could lose a vital champ. One final thing is counters to your build. There are several, but two come to mind. The first is anti-summonig. The Ravenspeaker and units with Sever Summons can create some havoc on your build, so take these down quickly and rebuild. The other is cleansing like Paladin builds. When an enemy champ is cleansed quickly, most your stalling techniques do not work. But this can be overcome by powerturns, which I describe below. You have few specialty runes in here that you need to consider. The first is the Aspect. He is in there for health regen only. If possible, get his charge count to over 20 for maximum effect. If you can not get her, then Avenging Angel can work in a pinch, but try to get her. You need health regen for your main units. The second is the Tree Spider. This unit is great for stalling. It has Web or Cocoon and Envenom. Cocoon is great for health regen, stat building, and font challenging. If your champ is low on health, Cocoon it to protect and regen. While cocoons, it will stat build but only once. If it is on an enemy font, Cocooning it will do all that plus challenge the font. However, Web is also good for stalling, and it can be used more often. Pick which of these works best for you. The third is Wizard of the Ways. This guy will improve critical mass instantly. Give him Teleport 2 and Relocate Foe. With Relocate Foe, he can bring an enemy closer to your melee zombies. However, what makes him more useful is his Grant Teleport. Cast Grant Teleport on a melee Zombie like Infected or Festering, and these will teleport to an enemy champ within 6 spaces and then Latch On to lumber. If done correctly, you can Relocate Foe and Grant Teleport to bring a zombie and enemy champ together from 8 spaces away. Escape Magic will give your melee zombies a little more tankiness, and you can bring them back to the front lines with Grant Teleport. Your Soulreave spell can be a major powerturn if done correctly. Instead of equipping your units with Forest's Embrace, equip it one on enemy champ. It will instantly cocoon. Then, cast Soulreave, and all your units can attack the cocooned champ. Once the enemy champ dies, you swarm a Festering Corpse, and your Embrace equip goes to cool down. Cast Craft on your Artisan, and the Embrace equip goes off cooldown to be used again the next round if you have the nora. This is useful because Soulreave lasts 3 turns, which means you can equip Embrace again and attack one more time for another kill and Festering Corpse. This can also be used with your Tree Spider's Cocoon ability. The last one is Spontaneouse Growth. This little spell is great for units with regen, and it is a quick-return spell. It grants an instant 10 HP increase to any unit it is cast on. This is helpful in protecting your vital summoning champs like Timothy who has a low HP count to start. Lastly, try to cast Mobilization on the same turn as Zombie Herder on your Fleshweavers to maximize the powerturn. End Game If you get to the end game, you will probably win. Some opponents can stall and rebuild. Stay the course no matter what; keep at your speed because your critical mass will take care of enemy rebuilds. Do not seek to take the shrine unless you have the critical mass to do it. Do not go from font to font in battle. Go from battle to battle because you create mass in battle. If a battle happens at a font, then win the battle as a primary concern. Have fun.
This looks like a fascinating and well thought out deck, but pretty different from the angle going here. This would probably make a great independent thread.
I haven't even read it yet, but either way this guy just gave me an essay to help out. I'll have to take it into consideration .
Thanks a lot for the review . Main reason I want to use ST is because it'll make it easier on the cost; I have many core cards in it allready and its avatar. Personnally if I can figure out a better deck that uses a Swap/ST/Venger mechanic I'd prefer that over changing this deck. But maybe I'll be able to figure out a way to use ST here instead. For example, find something that freezes instead of entangles. As far as selling venger for something else, I'd prefer not to, as he is my first legendary. But it is true that hes not incredible for his cost. If there is a poxbox trade that comes up that would be of equal or greater value for him, then I'll think about it.
@DrakeArron, @Sirius, @kalasle Sorry, I misunderstood the mechanic you were going for, so disregard my build advice. I am thinking up a build for your Venger with its delayed AOE.
Oh, no, its ok lol. Honestly the idea of imobilization could work well, and it pointed me to looking for that kind of thing. Thanks a lot for helping some more to! Hmm, yes it looks like it could help a lot. thanks for pointing me towards it!
Oh, something I should mention; the deck you gave before had several high cost cards in it, I just think I should say again it will be easiest if there are only common/uncommons, and a few rares. Thanks a lot!
I promised a build idea for you, so I have one that considers most of your requests and most of your mechanic. As I stated before, I create lore driven builds; so the lore for your build is: "They will fascinate at the sight of you, and you will desecrate them in binding cold of corruption," Serkan. Here is is your build. (I think you will like this one.) The strategy difficulty is moderate to hard. http://poxbase.com/deck/c7wCfJCg CiNctUCaNciicpDcanCgks6mS4gs2Ls6dSns4fr2Tr2Pr3yr2ur2gE1D Front Game Play your Obelisk and spam the Scry option on it; you need this rune because your mechanic is intricate and thus requires quick setup. Then, get to a font and protect it. Your build has a solid nora gen component to it in case you lose your font, but try to keep it the best you can. Your strategy is to create battle zones every 3 rounds. While in the zone, you goal is to make 2 to 3 kills over 2 rounds. Nothing less than 2. When you are not in a battle zone, retreat, defend, and build up for the next zone. It does not matter where the zone is, but battling over a font can be a zone. So you will battle in a zone for 2 rounds, then retreat. Mid Game Your battle zone approach is: rush in, bind, whittle down, and kill off. Give your Thralls Nohkan Do and Crushing Charge as upgrades. These are your primary rush and binding units. You have another rush in and bind combo with your Witches and Chain spells. This is your primary move and the start of your battle zone. Your next move is to move in your Vengers, which act as your tanks (these are not tanks per se but will be when you set things up). Give these MA 2 and Defiling Aura as upgrades and equip them with a Staff. When you can, get rid of the Soulpainter and get another Venger. When these enter the battle zone, cast Desecrate to start the whittling process by a series of attacks over the next 2 rounds. Between Desecrate and Chains, you will get 20 damage on enemy champs in the battle zone. Consider this number when whittling the next round. However, you need to protect your champs while they are here. I will go into this in the next paragraph, but for now, I will finish explaining the battle zone approach. When you whittle down your enemy champs, try not to kill them off with your melee and support units unless necessary. Your units for the kill off are your Corruptors. Give these Soulharvester 2 and DZ 4. The Soulharvester ability is your nora gen, which can be huge when it comes to your next battle zone. Use Corruption to covert to a Loss of Life attack, which can not be defended, for a more guaranteed kill. There are two things to consider for your units in the battle zone. The first is binding the enemy units for a 2-round duration. The first binding comes Chains. The next binding must come from another source. You have four sources for this. The primary one comes from Fascinate, which will draw in enemy champs in the battle zone. Drop your Sapphire on the first possible battle zone. Cast Imbue Luminescence on your Venger, and he will have Fascinate for as long as he stays alive, a very useful second bind. The second option, and a very potent one, is to drop a Grim Well near your Venger. This works really well. The other two options come from these champs, the Blizzard and Legwhip. Give Blizzard Snow Fall and Wind Aura (Snow Shroud make work also) as upgrades. This will slow down enemy retreats and advances and allow for good defense later. Legwhip is in here just for dragging attack, which will bring enemy units deeper into the battle zone and next to your melees. He can also hit hard with Rapid Attack. The second concern is to protect your melee units in the zone. You have four ways to do this. The first is the self-defense of your Thralls and Vengers. The Thralls have Nohkan Do, so do not use all their AP when you whittle down. Vengers have Shield. The second is healing. The Curates will heal your units, but also your Dragons will heal up your Vengers with Frost Cone since they have Ice Eater from the Staff equip. The third way is Snow Shroud. This little ability makes your units tank since they will get Reflexes and Evasive 3, but it only works when the unit occupies snow. The Staff equip gives your Vengers this ability, so they can instantly receive Snow Shroud. Other units must be on snow in another way. Drop your Orb for instance Trail: Snow and then use Shroud on unit. The Blizzard can also help with Snow Fall. The fourth way to protect your units is with Awestruck. You have sources for this. The first is from your Witches. Give them Defiling Corpse and Sonic Roar, and they will Awestruck fairly regularly. Another source is the Grumble Rock. This serves two purposes. The first is to Awestruck your opponent, and the second is to Grant Charge to your Curates. Curates do not have an attack but will now at +3 damage. There are a few more things to consider. The first are your other runes. Gale Force blows another unit into the battle zone and will be great for maximizing the kill rate. The second is the Chains of Corruption. These spells serve two purposes. First, they can extend a battle zone, or they can create another zone if you use them with your Witches. Play with this combo to learn more. The third is your Mobilization spells. These will do two things. They can save a failing battle zone engagement be generating more AP for kills, or they can create a mega power turn with double battle zones. I describe double battle zones in the end game portion below. The fourth rune to consider is the Guardian. This guy has Curse and Relocate Relic. Curse slows and whittles down an enemy champ from a good distance. Relocate Relic is great at moving forward your relics, the Orb, Rock, and Well, from one battle zone to the next, which could come in handy in a pinch. The last thing to consider is your retreat. Remember that this build is setup for battling 2 rounds and then retreating. The retreat is important. It helps you gather resources, size up your next move, and heal up. When you retreat, always keep those units more than 2 spaces from each other to keep them from getting spammed by small AOE damage, which can tear up your build. Lastly, stay within reach of your first step in the battle zone approach, which is to rush in, usually 5 spaces away. You can sniped from this range though, so be careful. End Game If you make it the end game, you will probably win. However, some players can stall and turn. You have no power units in your build, so do not extend your approach beyond your mechanic. Stay the course and speed, and you should finish off any counters. However, you do have chance to force a forfeit or rage quit with the double battle zone. With this technique, you may kill off 4-6 enemy champs, which is usually enough to force the win. To create a double battle zone, you are not going to retreat, but you will create one 2-round battle zone and then cast Mobilization at the end of it to immediately create another battle zone further in the map. However, it requires practice in timing, nora count, and AP count. Practice this when possible until you get it to work, and then have fun with it. I hope this helps.
First, before I read it, may I give an enormous thanks. Anything I can do to help in the future, please ask. Okay, I really like it overall, there is one thing I'd like to add though that could help with moving from one battle zone to the next, an exotic I got as a gift; Swap, the spell. With this, I can swap any two of my units of the same size. This way I can send something like a thrall into one area of the map to hold them off for a while, then swap in a new unit (say a witch with corruption spell), when the thrall gets low health. By the time this second unit goes down, Ill have had time to move in another battle ground, and without losing as much ground to the enemy advance. Only question is which card I would replace it with.. perhaps gale force, as this would be a better manuvering spell then the random nature of gale? BTW; I find this deck kind of amazing in how its put together. It has no theme in the general sense such as zombies or witches, but rather in mechanics, which I think makes it a much more well knit deck. Well done, and please keep doing as your doing!
Swap is a great spell and has lots of uses. However, it is mostly used to single out an enemy champ for a kill. This is problematic for your build because you do not want to single out anything. Also, keep your units, like our Thralls, together and healed up. If you single one out, it is dust in the next round. You might pull that off against new opponent, but a more advanced one will make you waste the move. I would suggest you try it out in different ways to see how it can fit. EDIT One thing I thought of would be to use it in the double battle zone idea I gave you. That could work really well to setup your 2nd battle zone. Cast it after Mobilization to rush in your champ for binding. Try replacing it with Arctic Gift or Gale to see which works best.
