I don't tend to rage around like mad but that patch ist just plain stupid. No one cares about Ferren if they don't have a theme that works for them. I don't even care if the patch made some Ferren "metaworthy". You tried to push Jakei as a theme in the last patch. Why didn't you proceed? Why changes to a group of champs without fixing them theme wise? Molest says that Wrath did that changes. Dear Wrath. Please join us in our conversation and explain to us why the changes to Ferren was the best possible thing to do this patch.
You may want to look at this thread: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/tundra-reformation.15856/ In which a lot of people have expressed interest in Ferren. The last 2-3 pages is almost entirely about Ferren.
Aspect of Infinity is still unimpressive btw. Her trademark skill takes too long to use and she doesnt do much in battlefield. She just runs around %75 of the time after being deployed. She needs something more active like grant:frost aura. Also expexted the silent contemplation change.
I know and the whole discussion started with this request for a new racial. The whole rest of the conversation is about changes to Ferrens after you did take care about the racial.
Lets get more concrete: Assassin: Only Assassin 1 on base. 24 to 30 damage with some buffs. Yea. After that a 40 hp base champ with ZERO def skills is siting on the table like a fat duck. All disciplines do only work on basic attack = the whole U1 is sandbag for a assassin style gameplay. Well done... Brawler and Pouncer: They are cheap and thats it. No interaction with any existing theme. Just a lateral change. Wanderer: Pseudo 8 speed and swap and thats it more or less. Low hp, low damage, no def. Nice beater... lol
A lot of people had shown interest in buffing ferrens, and, as a fan of the theme I wanted to do that. Implementing a new racial is a major project that was not on the table for a minor patch like this one, so I decided to see if I could make them play like Ferrens again without a full redesign. Please note that this does not mean that a more in depth redesign and possibly even a new racial are off the table for the future. Ferren don't have beaters. Or true tanks for that matter (Master kind of was one). They've always been a theme that uses cc or mobility to stay out of trouble. Wanderer is not meant to tank, he's meant to swap in Pouncer, Brawler or Master who do the tanking, or Assassin for burst damage.
OMG please Wrath. Ferren didn't have beaters or tanks because they debuffed the s..hit out of their opponents. Tanking is no issue if everything is awestruck and stunned. You can't bring the original playstyle back without implementing something they had originally. If you fail to implement something like that you can't stick to the "they have no true tanks and beater" idea because it don't work like that in pox. You need beaters and tanks and somehow defined roles. But the Assassin does burst just a little bit. Brawler and Pouncer do just a little beating and Wanderer and Master do just tank a little bit. And why should anybody be happy about changes to some champs that doesn't even give them a defined roll out of their non existing theme with the hint that there might been some further changes that will make them finally playable? Why not some further changes to that half baked Jakei theme buffs of the last patch. You know... 100% solutions not just a little bit of everything.
Jakei is not a theme just because a couple of them got buffed/adjusted. As was explained the Tundra Reformation thread, this is a first step towards bringing Ferren back towards how they used to play. When I decide what to do with Ferren Focus, we'll update that too.
It was one of the greens that stated that Jakei got some changes into a racial direction. (Queen, That new relict) But I understand. When you have a final solution somewhere in the future all Ferrens will be changed again and everything we got in this patch is going to be reverted/changed/whatever. You might see it from a other perspective and might say that we have lost valuable changes to some runes that where in need of adjustments with this patch because all the changes are temporary.
I actually think this patch was nice because it gives Ferren something I always thought they should have which is mobility. Clearly they're not completely done as a theme but it's a good step they have taken. Assassin no longer has ridic pricing (any Ferren above 75 Nora or so is a bit questionable in my opinion unless they offer amazing things) and offers cool stuff. Brawler has got some nice synergy going on. Swap on wanderer is dope and the new pouncer might pull off some funny stuff. I wouldn't worry about the removal of NKD because I'm sure they will find ways to be resilient (terrain interactions with snow shroud, debuffs and so on). So really all of this has potential, just hoping the other changes arrive rather fast because this looks like a nice set up for the different playstyle ST has been yearning for, so I'm looking forward to it. Edit: Thanks Wraith and Sok. More pls!
Assassin: Yeah he is cheaper now. Cool. Compare him with the Hyaenid Stalker and say again that you are happy with him. And yes. They will find some ways to get them more resilient sooner or later. But right now this doesn't count anything. Yes there is potential. This is the reason almost everyone here is still playing this game but they didn't deliver the potential in this patch and thats what I do find very, very disappointing. Ad they failed to do it in the last patch too. I do agree. Thanks for the try but the ship able product you have delivered with this patch was medicore at best. From a product manager view you failed.
No room for comparison. They're two runes which are only slightly different and fulfill a certain role within their themes. Doing individual comparisons without taking the context said rune is going to be in won't ever end well, and that's when bad calls happen. What makes stalker stand out more than assassin I that much unlike stalker, assassin is part of an undeveloped theme. I for one favor change regardless of the common opinion, because sooner or later things come together. I don't know what you expected, but this is definitely something you should not be angry about, especially when said buffs were probably not even part of this tiny patch and they still happened.
You need to understand. There is no buff and no one knows if these buffs are going to happen. There is a lot of stuff on the list of poxnora and most of the stuff needs to be done twice because it wasn't introduced properly in the first try. (AoI says hello) What did I expect. Well let me think about it.. Further changes into the Jakei/Cristal theme that is still underdeveloped. There where some changes and what now? Dropped. Still crappy. Further changes into the Lonx theme that got hit several times and still needs some adjustments. There where some heavy nerfs but no "tweaking" of the theme after that. (anyone remember that babystep idea. Lonx say lol to babysteps) Further changes into terrain stuff. Something that you could fit into almost any ST bg as a micro module. Further changes into Flyers because they are much more easy to fix than Ferren ever will. (including Strig) Or the other way around. I do expect changes that are not temporary because the theme of that particular champs that got changed will or will not be changed somewhere in the near or not so near future. I was hoping for changes that do actually complement into what ST already have. Right away. You know, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If Ferren get a racial I am leaving SP forever and marrying ST. I am so happy NKD was removed from them.
Was kinda hoping for spell buffs and strig buffs. Kinda satisfied with ferren changes. Good job @Sokolov @Wraith
The only change I really wanted to see when I first read Ferren, was the remove of NKD. THANK YOU! Big expectations raises from this. Ferren Focus is back ♥
Dear Wraith, Your knowledge on ST/ST themes is crap. You should either step your game level up or leave the patches for Sok/Moles. We don't need a tryout designer for ST, we need the real deal. Changes were a step in the right direction, but they were very unimpressive and I doubt they helped the theme as a whole, instead they just pushed Assassin to meta play. I'm disappointed, but I didn't expect more because, well, this is Pox and we know how things are handled.
