Pro choice here. I found the video comical. Spoiler Watch this if you care. Mildly informative if not comical insight. In anycase this also doesn't show what women who have to go through due to situations that force pro life. Work related issues, doctors, money, social, mental stress. Ect... Her body, her choice. "Just have to make that big adjustment it's not my life anymore, it's our life." That's a huge adjustment. Not to say i'm against the right to a babies life to live, but that I'm against forcing someone to do something like this. It's easy to say "I care about life", but what about the mothers life? As a note I don't really want to get into anything here. Lots of people in this section are pretty vocal. Figured I'd just voice my thoughts, and step out. EDIT: Vid was meant to be the full playlist apparently the forums doesn't like that link.
On a related note, I did find it interesting the way the US media/politicians have withdrawn the 'terrorism' label from attacks by non-muslims. The initial statement by the clinic that was that there was an act of 'domestic terrorism' which was then withdrawn in favour of 'an act of violence' or some such. It does seem like part of a pretty cynical ploy to redefine the word as something intrinsically foreign.
There are two bodies involved in conception, but only one in pregnancy, delivery, and the medical ramifications that result. Do I believe that the woman should have 100% say? No, but even 51% say means her decision determines the result.
I kinda meant the body inside her. But yeah, that mothers get to kill the fathers children without them being able to save them in any way ... That's a bit nasty.
A man can suffer extreme mental anguish after his wife or gf unnaturally terminates their almost-soon-to-be child. Men, choose very carefully. Cause your heart getting crushed does NOT matter in the slightest to most people of Murica.
I agree, men can be affected by an abortion, but not to the degree a woman can. A pregnancy definitely is not a 50/50 situation, and where 51% or more is involved, that person is ultimately responsible for the decision. I hope women take their partner's feelings into consideration, but they are the ones most impacted by a pregnancy.
Why not? Honestly, I don't really get the widespread acceptance of abortions for the sake of convenience. A child of two people is killed by one of them, legally. I get that there are cases where it amounts to the lesser evil, **** or endangerment of life, but treating it as post-conception contraception is ****ed up in my opinion.
Almost without exception, a man and women choose 50/50 to risk pregnancy. After that choice is made, often many times, the woman can become pregnant. Once she is pregnant, the power usually shifts from 50/50 to something much closer to 100/0. If she wants it, and u don't, get ready to pay out the kazoo. (And I don't just mean financially). If you want the baby, and she does not, too fudging bad. This is the modern reality, so choose wisely guys.
Just wanted to say I disagree with this. In many cultures, pregnancy is actually used as a way to enslave women and is often not a realistic choice for the woman. Even pretending that sex alone is somehow a 50/50 arrangement seems incredibly naive of how relationship dynamics actually work in the real world. I am not making a statement here on how that plays into abortion, but I just disagree with that quoted statement vehemently. SIDEBAR: Did you know there's a tribe in SE Asia that practices post-partum abstinence for 5 years? **** is also unheard of in that culture.
Bang on the money Sokolov. The fact is, even in so-called developed countries, equality is hit and miss - never mind the rest of the world!
Not really a dig at you, I think it shows character to think outside of the tribalism of left/right. That said, I don't think there is really an identifiable point at which you can say it is a body (which you use with the implication of a person) rather than an embryo. I mean, I shoot out sperm all the time- do you class those as humans? What about eggs? Cause that makes every adult a mass murderer. And if we take the leap to call it a human - so what? Is it conscious, and if it is self aware is it more so than the animals we slaughter by their millions every day? Is there something special about this label 'human' that means we need to treat it as sacred? There is too much fuzziness, and too much mysticism/religion/bullshit for me,
I honestly don't know what the statistics are on abortions being used as "post-conception contraception" is, but it doesn't seem like a common thing. Someone who encounters more women who might have had abortions than most of us might want to shed some light on this, but all the women I know who have had abortions don't take it lightly. Heck, I've personally dealt with women who gave up their children for adoption only to change their minds. Is there really an epidemic of women using abortion as their first-choice contraception? Anyway, while I agree that it shouldn't be used as first-choice post-conception contraception, I also agree that guns shouldn't be used to murder people, but it's interesting that in the case of guns, the pro-gun argument is to say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" but no one says "abortion doesn't kill babies, people kill babies." For me, guns and abortion aren't all that different, they are both tools that have legitimate uses and not-so-legitimate uses with a sharp political divide. And if denying law-abiding citizens access to guns is a terrible thing, why isn't denying law-abiding citizens access to abortions the same thing? More candidly, should the "bad apples" ruin it for everyone else in either case? (I am not saying you think abortions shouldn't be legal, etc., just talking out my thought). And from the political vantage point if this is a concern, then it seems odd that pro-life politicians are also generally anti-contraception in the first place.
My opinion is that once the fetus is viable if delivered, it should be considered a person. Not viable with extraordinary measures, but with the effort that is given to a normal birth.
I should have qualified my statement a lot more, so as to prevent anyone from thinking I was discussing all the cultures and people of the entire planet. My comment was in relation to the West, specifically America. The vast majority of the time, a man and a woman choose to get busy. That choice is 50/50, or at least very close to 50/50. I agree that too many men are abusive of women. A smaller percentage of women are too abusive of men. Abuse by same gender couples is a problem as well. Getting busy often happens in a relationship, and it also often happens outside of a relationship. Regarding relationship dynamics, I believe that most adults in America respect "no" in this matter. It sounds like Sok has had very different experiences in this arena than myself, my friends, or my family. He is in "vehement" disagreement with my earlier 50/50 statement. (My apologies for skimming over the point). Hopefully my clarifying remarks will be more acceptable.
