The daily show on pro-life

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BurnPyro, Dec 3, 2015.

  1. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Doesn't it now.
     
  2. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    is this a question? because indeed, it doesn't qualify. if it does then personhood will have to be extended to all other living beings in the animal kingdom, and maybe several plants and fungi.
     
  3. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    You wave away that problem with a lot more ease than an intellectually honest person could.
     
  4. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    because it's obvious and discussing it has been done to death (kind of like all those abortions? haha i'll be here all week.) and your last statement was no more intelligent than "O RLY?"

    so there is no problem except the one you create.
    kind of like how pregnancy can be a problem.
    but there are solutions.
     
  5. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Yes, it is absolutely obvious, that must be why people are disagreeing on that topic rather vehemently and philosophers are cracking their heads over it. Don't lose yourself to your delusions of grandeur.
     
  6. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    philosophers should deal with philosophical matters, and the rest? no diffirent than anti vaccination movements, who have been using the same tired old arguments since the days of the first vaccinations.

    really the anti vaccers should not exist anymore.
    they should have been aborted.
    (this is so much fun.)
     
  7. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    abortion solves everything! if we abort this abortion of a thread we would all be happier :D
     
  8. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Sometimes you can be a bit annoying. I guess I'll ignore you on this matter until you can formulate something relevant ...
     
  9. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    you claimed an embryo is a person and you have not backed it up, and i can't formulate something relevant?

    so your argument is: people have a diffirent opinion and because their opinions exist they are valid?
     
  10. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Make a thread and go to sleep they said.

    It won't blow up, they said.
     
  11. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    FETUS

    : an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetus

    A human fetus is a human.


    Regarding your question, a few links follow:

    (Unborn Victims of Violence Act was signed into law by GW Bush 4/14).

    http://www.nchla.org/issues.asp?ID=25


    (Substance use during pregnancty).

    http://www.ucsfhealth.org/education/substance_use_during_pregnancy/


    (Fetal homicide laws).

    http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx


    (First US woman charged, convicted and sentenced for “feticide”).

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/



    If one chooses an abortion, the earlier in the pregnancy the better. The risk to the woman goes up and up and up as the due date approaches.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  12. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Words on paper make thing human why?

    Tree = human

    now tree is human why not?
     
  13. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Words on paper make human not human why?

    Geressen =! human

    now Geressen is not human why not
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  14. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    wrong! geressen =!human -> geressen >human.
     
  15. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I would argue that the problem comes down to this label of 'human'.

    We live in a culture which treats human life as sacred (not necessarily in a religious sense). For completely understandable and practical reasons there is a taboo against killing humans, eating humans, enslaving humans etc. This consensus gives us all a bit of security against being murdered and our vulnerable children being killed. It's all very sensible.

    We don't extend this to other lifeforms, not because they are less deserving but because it would be counter productive to our self interests, and this has become deeply ingrained in our culture.

    The difficulty comes when you get something which has a definition as human, and so can justifiably be given the label... but shares none of the meaningful characteristics we think of as human, or has any weight in the tactit understanding between us to not kill each other.

    So you get into arguments about definitions, as if a organism changes its nature completely if it is defined as being 'human' or not.

    I would characterise it as the weight of convention vs the power of rationality - looking at something by its name or actually looking at what it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  16. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Funny how people will blow up about a "human being" in such a minimal stage while their stance on the handling or care of a lot of people from varying ages/races/riches is a lot less... shall we call it, humane.
     
  17. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    It's cradle to grave, they want to fill those cradles, then on to fill the graves :D efficiency gone mad I tells ya.
     
  18. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    I oppose ageism, racism, and those that acquire wealth in evil/regressive ways. My goal is to treat all humans with respect. (Work in progress). Where we differ, I imagine, is how best to combat poverty and addiction and looting and laziness and radicalism and willful ignorance and other forms of evil.

    Besides paying a higher percentage of taxes than President Obama, I spend my time and my money helping lift up people in my community. (This includes a full tithe). I personally know many, many religious people that do the same or more. And I know some agnostics and some atheists that have the same individualistic mindset. Namely, that trying to use government as a weapon to force "goodness" will never really work because humans in power are corrupt. Sure, they accomplish some good. But the net movement is almost always negative. By overseeing and fighting for every dollar I donate, I have the best chance of making a positive difference on this rock. It is a tough reality for sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  19. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    (Emphasis mine).

    From head to tail, human sperm cells measure about 50 micrometers (0.05 millimeter, or roughly 0.002 inch). The tiniest object you can see with your unaided eyes is about 0.1 mm--so forget about seeing sperm without a microscope. A human egg is about 30 times bigger--large enough to be seen with the naked eye.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.denniskunkel.com/DK/Medical/97990A.html


    Human embryo at 6 weeks – only a half inch long!

    [​IMG]

    http://discoveringsomethingnewevery...1/human-embryo-at-6-weeks-only-half-inch.html



    [​IMG]

    (The above is slide #5).

    http://www.webmd.com/baby/ss/slideshow-fetal-development


    At 12 weeks pregnant, you'll finally be able to see your little one for the first time – probably the first major event you look forward to when you're expecting. The 12-week ultrasound scan can actually happen anywhere between 11 and 13 weeks. At this stage, believe it or not, all your baby's limbs, organs, bones, and muscles will be fully-formed.

    Your baby will still be very small – about 6 cm long. However, he or she will be fully formed, with all the organs in place. The next phase is simply to grow, as well as practicing breathing and sucking movements. You'll probably have the 12 weeks pregnant ultrasound now, but the gender won't be obvious yet.

    Skeleton: At 12 weeks, the fetus's skeleton is formed from cartilage, but this will gradually harden into bone over the next few weeks. Newborn babies have a skeleton consisting of more than 300 pieces of bone and cartilage, but the bones fuse together during growth to become bigger and stronger, so the adult body has 206 separate bones.
    • Intestines: Your baby's organs are also rapidly developing at 12 weeks gestation. The intestines, which were previously growing so quickly they protruded into the umbilical cord, are now regressing back into the abdomen and the kidneys are starting to excrete urine into your baby's bladder.
    • Movement: Your baby will be moving about your womb a lot, although they are so small you won't feel anything. As they move, their wrists and elbows bend. The eyelids are still fused shut, but they have now moved from the side of the head to the final position at the front.
    • Reflexes: This is also the week your little one starts practicing reflexes, including clenching the eye muscles, making sucking actions with the mouth, and bending fingers and toes. If you prod your belly, your baby will squirm, although you won't feel the movement just yet.
    http://www.newhealthadvisor.com/12-Weeks-Pregnant-Ultrasound.html


    "...but shares none of the meaningful characteristics we think of as human..."
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  20. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I guess you meant that as a refutation of my point, but I think you actually ended up supporting it. Unless you think possession of intestines is the thing that makes being human special.
     
    BurnPyro likes this.

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