The Salaman's Revolution

I tried to make the racial fit their lore, so racial can be changed if any better ideas are said in the future.

The idea of CD reduction on things like dodge and stuff wasn't suppose to be "OMG I CAN NOW CAST DODGE 3 TIMES IN ONE TURN" but more of like, cool I have dodge 1 for the cheaper nora cost, but can cast it every turn now. I only put things like Dodge 2 cause frankly I ran out of ideas for upgrade options.

I am really pro-change on Rook, but atm FS community is like a broken home. If I tried bringing it up, either I get cheers or knives in my ribs. I will let Soko discuss that one if anything does take place.


These champs I modeled aren't the best, the best ones I have yet to calculate, but champs like Dervish, Fire, Daredevil will have super useful abilities



P.S. thanks for the opinion on picket. I think Sentry should be more of a range support. Agree or nah?

 

Dodge/Block specifically is less my concern than the limitations on design-space in general that Ability CD reduction could bring. It's just an example of how that kind of effect could impact things.

I mean, another example is that it could cause Grant: Action Potion to become much more problematic. Not only would the ability itself come up more often, but the actual Action Potion ability could potentially get used more than once per Grant on the same Champion. Bomb abilities could potentially get used every turn, which may or may not be "okay." The fact it affects all Salamen makes giving abilities both "necessary" to get good use out of the racial, and at the same time "iffy" since it has such a drastic impact... and this would of course still be the case even if it only reduced CD by 1.

I'm also assuming that the CD reduction doesn't stack per instance of Nora Fusion (which wasn't clear in the ability description), aka: that the CD is reduced only by 2 no matter how many Nora Fusion champs are in play, since to me the main limiting factor would be the number of Relics/Equips.

 

Well that is implying that Slick and Buzz would still have Grant: Action Potion, but last night DoubtofBuddha and I had a small talk.

What if we changed the racial to do Nora Gen on relics/equipment but also to give +2 dmg for 8 turns(max of 6). And the cost would be 5 not 8 nora. The CD portion would be eliminated, causing less problems, and it would be simpler. He also suggested giving the new racial just to a few types of salaman, and it would go off in an AoE and effect all salaman. So basically 1 salaman one have racial, but if you played a relic any salaman near him/including him, would benefit. This way not every salaman would have the cost of the racial, just a select few.

 

Well, yes, but it wouldn't solve the other half of the problem. Darkmarsh Witch would still have Grant Action and/or Healing, and Splits could give all sorts of pots to the Salamen, so it'd still be possible to "double up" on the pots even if the Grant actions weren't effected. Plus, I like Slick having Grant Action Potion

So like, "If an Equip or Relic is Deployed from the Rune Dock within X Spaces of this champion, all Salaman within X (or Y?) Spaces Gain +2 DMG (to a Max of 6) for Z turns"?

Removing the CD reduction certainly makes it less complicated (both directly and via the implications).

Regarding Nora Gen: Favor costs 8 Nora, for 5 nora returns on spells. This would return anywhere from 1-10 nora, based on previous descriptions. Reliably speaking, you'd probably get 3-6 nora in general, which is less than Favor to be sure, but you're also having a stack-able DMG buff. Also, Favor doesn't stack, so make sure that's in there as well. Wouldn't want people playing Equips Relics to simply gain nora for playing them after all.

Ultimately, I don't think reducing the nora cost of the ability would be appropriate.

I do like that it's not something that would need to be on everything (sort of Witch-like)


Alright, to bring back my personal Bias, I still don't like Racials, and especially racials that involve investing in something that isn't actually that Race (such as non-champion runes). However, as far as this goes, it's not the worst suggestion I've seen. At the very least, it could be an interesting "general" ability. For example instead of Salaman specific, it could possibly work for whatever shares the race of the champion.

It could at the very least be a sub-theme for Salaman, in somewhat the way that Devotee of D'elim is a subtheme for Elves and/or Trees.

Short version: "I don't hate it, so keep on working on things." (Not that you'd need my permission or even endorsement of course, I'm just one random person, vocal as I may be at times.)

 

You say witch still has action potion. I don't see how she would be able to do the stack potions, for she isn't salaman and wouldn't receive the racial, nor benefit from it. It's a Salaman only thing, and no other champs benefit from it. I am extremely appreciative for your in depth feedback and I understand on the theme/racial thing. Firk don't technically have a racial, but rely on soultap hard, which is a cool concept.

 

Grant: Action Potion gives an ability to a Salaman, that granted ability would get reduced by the previous racial, even if the Witch couldn't hand out more. It could have easily resulted in a given Salaman being able to use Action Potion twice during the 6 turns he's got it, resulting in a 10 AP gain overall from one "Grant: Action Pot" off the witch. Make sense?

As I recall, at least prior to the Revamp, the rework to Sensorate, and the Mastermind were already considered solid ways to pull the theme together. Soultap is a very recent thing, but it's not like Firk didn't jell together decently. Not that the Soultap stuff isn't welcome mind.

 

Very true on both fronts.

I will kick some more ideas around the brain bucket and try to get rid of loop holes and bad design flaws in the upcoming days.

I can't stress enough how much I appreciate all your guys feedback and how helpful you have been. I know when you read something you can't see the emotion, and sometimes it might look like I am being a huge raging ****, but I am not. I am mainly either confused or just a little late to understanding what you guys are meaning. Be patient with me, and I will be patient with you in return and we will try to fix these bad boys up.

 

Not a fan of Nora Fusion as a Salaman racial. It's a tad complex, as mentioned, and it would require too much effort to properly utilize given the reliance on non-spell runes. FS doesn't have enough universally useful equips/relics to support a Salaman 2.0 BG. If you're committed to an equipment racial, a tweaked version of Provision seems like a better fit.

Also, Nora Fusion begs to be split with IS for its superior equipment selection and synergy. Even the relics are better. I'm having flashbacks of FS/IS AP Denial using recycle for noragen. To me, Nora Fusion seems like spit bait rather than a defining ability for Salaman.

 

I think that is a good overall plan. As long as we don't put this ability on every salaman. It doesn't need to be one very salaman.

How about something like this:
Nora Fusion (5 points)
Whenever you place equipment on a friendly unit or a relic within five spaces the cooldown of all abilities on Salaman units decreases by one.

 

Well, I was thinking in Jyx the Shadeswom and that idea breaks my hearth... With that rune I was thinking in an split deck with UD Fire + FS Salaman theme but if u remove the fire inmunity from all salamans that is no sense.

I don´t know how they can work as a main FS theme, but the fire theme looks great on them

Maybe some equipment limited to that race (equip salaman) based on multihits (rapid attack is a key skill in some salaman champions) and multiattack skills could make them a fast hitting theme, like sunder 2 &/or noragen by bandity. Or a bit OP or nora undercosted equipment / damaging AoE relic.

 

See the problem is...Salaman were around prior to Jyx. Jyx was added, and frankly Jyx lore is about a cursed sword possessing him so that just adds more into the sala theme.

and I did a re-read on lore, and Salaman weren't slaves to Demons but Cyclops, so the fire immunity makes no sense now.

 

So... physical immunity then right?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Immunity came from Salamanders being historically associated with fire (for some reason, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_salamander though really that argues in favor of Damage Shield: Poison as the racial).

 

Well Sok green lighted the Salaman being next theme to get revamped, so keep the ideas flowing but just know it's in the hands of the creator(Cactus God Soko)

 

Reading through all this was awesome. I am not a fan of most of FS but for some reason I always liked Salamans. I hate immunity abilities in general (either have eater or just a damage % reduction) and reading that they will most likely be losing immunity fire I see as a huge win and has already opened up design space. I am going to have to grab a set of these guys now.

 

I am running a very strange FS/SP Construct/fire amp/salaman (for fire immunity) BG at the moment. Still testing it out/tweaking it, but it seems to work with hilarious effect.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing some UD/FS salaman split runes in the future to push the theme more into the direction of their hero.

 

I, for one, welcome our Salaman overlords