Theme Adjustments #1 - Wings and Hyaenids

Then I'm not sure why recosting them is required.
100% sounds fine for limited ability use but the ability to pass it to allies.

 

Because most of them are unplayable and the overall goal is to make most themes more playable. Do you have an alternative suggestion on how to go about this?

 

Not sure, but I think this is the wrong way. I think changing sigil completely would be better since recosting would just let them be easier to be splashed in since thematicially there's no real reason to have a deck full of them currently.

 

Just posting this again because I feel its important.

 

Is there a problem with a unit becoming a meta unit? Is it something we need to actively strive against?

 

Well, if your goal is to buff a theme but all you do is create a handful of meta runes, you have failed at your goal.

On the larger picture, often themes have 1-2 good meta runes but overall are lacking. Then a new rune or mechanic comes out which lifts the whole theme up. At this point, those old meta runes see a substantial boost (remember, they were good enough to be splashable before the new rune/mechanic, now even better) and probably end up being nerfed. A nerf which usually spills out into the whole theme in some ways and you see it get knocked down. Or in other words, it ends up creating an unstable situation.

Ideally you would have mild power differences between theme runes (where a unit might be slpashed to cover niche reasons, not due to out right power/efficiency) that is brought gently up with the theme bonus.

 

So would the overall goal be to not really have meta bgs at all, or for the champions that make up meta bgs to be ones that do not fit into other themes, essentially make meta a theme of its own?

 

I guess this is a problem with using the term meta so liberally. Not sure if this is the perfect description, but: Meta, broadly, traditionally refers to inclusions of something for the purpose of countering what is currently being played as opposed to what is good. The meta is what is currently being played. The attitudes of the players. So when people talk of meta BG's they are referencing the most common/popular play style.

To this extent, meta is always going to exist whether it is FF, split, or theme based.

What is being meant here when people say meta rune, is a rune that is not dependent on other contexts for its power. Scarlet Wing is an example, as it finds its place in almost all BG's due to its power, irrelevant as to what its theme is meant to be. Both players and developers tend to want to avoid this. For the players these runes are either centralizing or ubiquitous to the point of predictable. There is less fun if every time you see IS you know X, Y and Z are going to be in there. For the developers, these runes limit the design space. If every BG has a Scarlet Wing, you cannot really make a new magic range champ for IS without it being a) better than the Scarlet Wing (power creep) or b) worse (not used).

 

Hyaenids would be awesome with more ways to interact with debuff. Spreading Judgement around would probably be too much, but that is currently the most fun component of playing them: setting up loads of debuffs and then popping them makes the Hyaenid starter both my favorite and one of the strongest.

 

I think Burn is overreacting to the +/-1 or 2 making something "splashable" meta. And why is something being competitive in meta a bad thing again?

I think that is a shortsighted way of looking at something.

If you want to apply a normalized costing method to wings, great, but it's not really going to change anything.

The problem I see is that wings are supposed to be moving and position related playstyle. They aren't. They are quite bland as a theme and end up just being flyingbeast.dek.

They have no business being beasts. Neither do 80% of what is currently beasts. So I'd start there.

Next I'd examine why positioning and mobility failed to be important to playing the theme.

I'd look to change out abilities to that effect.

Gedden ruined most of this with his dartboard revamp, such as my C Wing rebuild that included retreat.

While doing this ability "relook" I'd check to make sure the abilities are costed correctly and take this opportunity to trim Scarlet down and raise some of the other pooptastic ones up.

Just like anything, though, don't bother building unless you secure a good foundation. In this case it's -race: beast.

 

Another idea I just had is that you could make the Sigil stronger but then only allow sigil activation by other sigil deploys. Right now they get 6 turns of self sigil on any deploy. They could get 6 turns of self on a sigil deploy, 1 turn of self on a non sigil deploy. Or zero on non sigil. Or you could have a non sigil deploy remove all currently active sigil deploys.

Those are just some ideas to tighten up the theme.

 

What if dogpile acted as a surge / bulwark counter? So the Djinn got dmg / hp for each dogpile condition? Like each attack was summoning a stronger being.

 

I don't understand reducing the cost of the sigil abilities.

A sigil ability is basically permanently the ability it gives + the possibility giving it to nearby champs + the possibility to activate other sigils, I don't see how that equates to only bing the value of half the ability

 

I'd like to pitch some idea's here.

An ability "When this unit destroys a champion, pass its negative conditions to the nearest enemy champion."
And "All champions in X range are relocated closer to target unit for every 2(for example) negative condition on the champions."
And "Target champion has all instances of dogpiled removed, add random debuff (from selected pool, maybe custom made?) for every instance removed"

 

Moving the "serf" effect to djinns will be awesome. I often find the ability getting in the way of a more effective champ. I also think Berserker 2 should be replaced with multiattack 1 because as it is right now its like another form of Boost and I'd rather have nids stay away from boost like effects. Leave that to Moga, cyclops, voils.
And you'll no longer have to worry about careless.

So I'm thinking serf could look like this-> Friendly nid champs within 4 spaces gain 1 range. Nid Champs with minimum range of 1 gain multiattack 1.

Alternatively you can go with a more elemental boost unique to each djinn.
Peaks ifrit's "serf to the djinn" would look like this-> friendly champs with a basic attack within 4 spaces gain attack fire. Nids also gain 2 ranks of burn.
marid -> friendly champs would gain attack elecectricy and Nids would also gain 2 ranks of jolt. Notice ranks so that a champ with jolt 1 would have jolt 3.

Dao could have the ability I first described because he's like a battlemaster.

I'd also love to see more debuff synergy. Here are some more ideas:

->nora generation ability - when this champ damages a champion you gain 1 nora for every 2 debuffs on target champion.
- or this -> target champion is cleansed and you gain 3 nora for every debuff removed (cd: 5 ap 3)
-> healing ability - when this champions damages a champion freindly nids within 6 spaces of target champion heal 1 hp for every debuff

Nids also need some access to defile.
Also could Spiritspeaker please gain frightful blows to upgrade line 1. I miss it so so so much.

 

the first ability hex suggested sounds damn epic.

 

I find your suggestions mundane. Sigils at them moment need a rework because they are too complex. Dogpile is boring and next to useless. Feel free to remove the ability from the game. What use is more range on Djinn champs when they have no damage? I look forward to charging my 7 damage Dao into battle with 3 range. Perhaps rework all the djinn so there cost is worthy of the champ. Also remove immunity physical from Ifrit.