Theme Adjustments #1 - Wings and Hyaenids

The SP changes look awesome!

 

- Wings: on the subject of wings etc. @Sokolov I think not to be too formulaic but for each theme try to see how much spell/relic/equipment based synergy is present. I assume wings of glory is wing based but generic enough to be used for general flight decks but it just didnt work out.

- Maybe streamline wings of glory for flight decks with secondary clause being wing based or sigil based. Friendly Champions gain running start and swoop. If friendly champions already have flight/sigil they gain ground striker and sigil activates for x turns .

- something like that anyway the ability and trigger are up for debate but i think themes need multiple layers of synergy. If a new theme gets their racial tweaked and become meta without fleshed out spell/ability /relic/equip based support id presume that the racial is too strong and will limit design space in the future. Barbs come to mind..(rework pride of sarng. Please and add a barb relic/equip then splash champ based synergy then look at the warchief situation afterward)

 

To make Moga competitive why dont you increase the discount of G'hern Bound by 2 nora.

 

Stop.

 

But Dany90 is a limited league player stuck in the rare league with moga.

 

And you're in a Wings/Nids thread. Are you simple? It's ok if you are, I just want to know if its acceptable to call you names or not.

 

No I am not, but this is a theme thread. Are you a troll? I am just wondering if its al-right to call Athertroll or not?

 

I like Athertroll...

But you are wrong, it isn't a generalised theme thread. It is a theme thread aimed at specific themes and Moga isn't one of them.

May I suggest you wait for the Moga theme thread, rather than attempting to hi-jack the Wings/Nids thread?

This would avoid any further confusion as to whether you are simple or not, something I am still unsure about.

 

You see we have already got the Hyaenids changes we need, now its time to hijack this thread for another SP theme. I mean what more could we ask for Hyaenids. They are getting +1 range if they are near a djinn, they are getting a 2 nora discount and the individual djinns are getting grants like berserker 2. Asking for anything more for Hyaenids would be greedy. They might even be OP after all these changes in which case they would need a nerf, something we want to avoid. I am telling you if all these changes go through SP meta will be Hyaenids, because our Meta itself is weak due to what was released in this expansion; and 2-3 of our ranged units are getting nerfed. In fact I am so happy with the Hyaenids changes, I am happy to let Sokolov shoebox KF with the coming bonus change.

 

AND wait for a godamn moga thread.!!!!!

 

I kinda like this idea. It opens up a bit of design space for the wings.

 

Didn't feel like replying back then (laziness or something idk), but I feel like it now.


This "from a player's perspective" thing... well, what do you see me as? I play the game too ya know... And both from the perspective of someone observing the game and that of a player, I understand and agree with the idea that every deck comes with its own difficulties and things you need to learn. In the Sigil's case, it would be managing the way you give out Sigils and when. Would it be too difficult? I don't know, I doubt it. I kept simulating game fragments in my head and it seemed alright, but this seems like the case to ask more experienced players. For example, I would trust @DMrBadguy 's input on this, especially because he plays swarmy decks a lot, so he knows what it is to have a lot of things to do on the board.

I am not talking just from the perspective of someone who has his head in the clouds but plenty of cool ideas. I have played Sigils way in the past before revamp for a little while and again recently. And while I cannot call myself a Sigil player by any means, I have noticed the exact opposite of what you claim. It is in theory that Sigils are only confined to a small cluster for the deploy-buff and then supposedly free to roam or whatever.
Due to the narrow area and the lack of AP/movement that you have agreed they suffer from, spreading out is a bad idea. It would mean wasting AP by moving away and then together again. And they are not quite equipped for that kind of thing. Better to just stick together as much as possible. This behaviour is further emphasized by their access to Boost: Beast (as I have already pointed out in my original suggestion post), yet another area buff.


Because of this and not only, a few weeks ago I'd have agreed that making Sigils a straight up phalanx deck is the easy (read: easier) fix. Maybe it fits the faction better/more easily too. But what's the point? I mean, why on earth would anyone desire another one of these decks? Don't we already have plenty of clustering decks in IS? Or is that just my impression? Sigils offer a good chance to have things a bit different.


But now, after having spent time thinking about the theme and coming up with suggestions, I have to say I doubt it would even work out well. I mean, that is where we are now and it's not working out terribly well. They play out like a Beast phalanx thing. This conflicts with the idea of them being a moving/positioning based deck. They are currently trying to do/to be multiple things and failing. As long as they have that conflict of design going on, I don't think they can work smoothly as a theme. So, you either focus them on phalanx and away from their originally intended design, or more toward how they were intended to be (which is what I tried).

Something that I kept being hindered by when I attempted my rework suggestion is that they are ALL freaking flying. All of them keep getting that +6 nora cost base. I mean sure, I get it, they are griffons. But can you imagine how much one could do with 6 nora's worth of wiggle room? Oh boy! And the thing is that not all of them even need flying imo.
Obsidian Wing could easily have Running Start imo (but the drawback seemed too insignificant for me to apply it). The mobile speedy ones sure need Flight. The rest? You could do without and you will surely need every bit of nora to be actually useful in this efficient stat meta. I even thought of making them gain temporary Flight through Sigil activation, but it seemed iffy to me somehow (I didn't get to think about it a lot).

 

I agree with Markoth that this opens up some design space for wings, but I worry that these will make them too cluster based. I assume the second clause is placed ON the Sigil that has it when another Sigil is deployed. In that case, I feel like Defender in particular has a very narrow area (I am looking at the current ability, I'm not sure whether it is of an increased range in your plans) that will force Wings to cluster up a lot. Also, I find Sigil of the Shield weird on Emerald Wing and I kinda liked him being about repositioning stuff.

 

I feel like sigils triggering only off of other sigils would mostly lock them into wings theme, for example the paladin amethyst wing wouldn't be really playable (unless there's no better choice for the cost) in a paladin BG