UD Blood Exchange spell

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Excalibur95, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Excalibur95

    Excalibur95 I need me some PIE!

    so i played a ranked game today...

    opponent was UD/SL split

    they used SL spell Ferocity Of Kain Taris - 30 nora SL spell...

    as a side note does this SL spell only trigger once or forever, i never have managed to work that out, neither have i played it before.

    the SL spell is not required but works well..

    my opponent used the various SL factions possesion aspects..

    they possesed my champion, then...

    cast the UD spell Blood Exchange..

    end result my champion goes down to 1 health, enemy champion heals fully.

    the Blood Exchange spell should not work this way imo, if used the way im sure it was invisioned there would be a drawback of leaving one of your own champions on little health and would easily be killed later.. the only benefit of course would be healing one of your own champions in full.

    what is happening now is that you basically insta kill an enemy champion (willl take one more hit) AND you heal your 1 health champion up to full health, or more?...

    as a side note if you blood exchanged a 200 health champion would your champion get the full 200 health in exchange, never worked this out?

    all for 25 nora.

    please add a clause to the UD spell Blood Exchange stating you can only target champions you own, not posses.
     
  2. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    eh i've built decks based on blood exchange a long time ago.
    its not that powerful. ( too many counters to it )
    also blood exchange doesn't swap max hp its coded as hp heal effect and removal basically.
    if it was a true hp swap then it'd be really strong as you could combo it with things like helm of chaos.
    ( that plus you could give low health units the health pool of higher health ones which would be broken but thats not the case )
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  3. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    love this combo, used to do it with UD/FW
     
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  4. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    If badge is willing to play something, it's probably not nerf worthy.
    /thread
     
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  5. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Your math seems off to me - by my count that's:
    30n Ferocity
    +35n Enslave
    +25n Blood exchange
    = 90n.

    Oh wait, sorry. I forgot that this is general discussion and deceitful arguments are par for the course here.
     
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  6. Excalibur95

    Excalibur95 I need me some PIE!

    davre, the only required nora investment is with 25n blood exchange.

    ferocity - nice but not needed if you have a low health champion.
    enslave - nice but you could use a posses 'ability' on the right champ instead.
     
  7. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    You would agree though, that ferocity/enslave/blood exchange (BE) is the most reliable way to get the return on blood exchange?

    Consider: the standard (not correct under all circumstances but generally preferable) way to destroy a champion is one-rounding, so if you leave a champion with low hp rather than dead you have already made a mistake. UD decks are already particularly suited to capitalize on those mistakes with sacrifice, retribution, and mandate from sheoul. All of these spells have the additional benefit that they are often an optimal play in scenarios where you did not make a mistake and leave a champion with low hp.

    So your broadened framework hinges on (A) the BE player's opponent playing poorly or with a non-standard playstyle, and (B) the BE player using this spell in place of a more versatile alternative.

    Additionally, your framework requires a method of possession. At 30n, enslave is the cheapest form of "drop-possession"; champion-based possession, as you allude, is the cheapest form of possession.
    Champion-based possession is not, however, free. Possess 1 is the cheapest possess ability; it costs 8n and is available only available on dark enchantress, a mediocre FW champion.
    Expanding the pool of possession champions to include those with possess 2 or 3 (12n or 20n) or voices in their head (20n), we are still looking at a very small group of champions in 3 factions:

    UD: stitched mesmer, imp deceiver
    KF: nymph
    FW: stitched mesmer, disturbed spirit, dark enchantress, archfiend.

    Of these 6 champions, the only ones that might make it into a goodstuff type deck (in my own opinion) are archfiend and dark enchantress, which railroads you into a UD/FW deck. You could use imp deceiver and/or stitched mesmer and split with whatever, but you start losing deck slots that could be taken up by more useful champions like pincushion.
    Assuming that the BE user has sacrificed the overall quality of their deck in the pursuit of this combo, consider this: champion based possession requires that the possessor can move within 2 spaces of its target with 4 AP left over. Once the target is possessed, the BE player must also position their near-dead champion so that BE swaps the HP of the possessed champion with the low-hp champion rather than the possessing champion. In essence, this scenario requires that (A) the possession champ is on the board and in possession range of a full hp target at the same time that a very low hp champ is also on the board and in range of the same full hp target, and (B) that the expenditure of 25n for blood exchange is a better use of the possession than an alternative move such as cliffdiving it.

    So yes, your broadened framework is possible. My critique of it is that you either need to spend additional nora in order for it to really pay off (and you can do quite a bit with 55n or more) or you are looking at very specific scenarios that can be anticipated and avoided with standard "correct" play.
     
  8. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    I would use enslave in SL or Crown of Corruption in FW for that.
     

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