So far the only decent tank I have found for this faction work decently is Fire Giant. I'm struggling to find others that fit my playstyle. When I am looking for a tank I'm looking for something I can run into my opponents champs and not worry about it dying until after decent time. What champs are working for you? Do you have any suggestions on what champs I could try? Also am I the only one that feels UD suffers because of spells like sacrifice? I run x1 of it in my bg because it's a decent spell but most of my champs are straight up one rounded and the chance to use it dies. What are your thoughts on this?
I feel like a lot of people use Sacrifice incorrectly. I think it's a good spell, but it probably is limiting UD.
Cinderpede is my tank of choice, it's amazing if you have some other source of lava generation around allowing you to pose either a ranged or a melee threat w/o spending AP. I usually run him at 88 nora, but in it's cheapest form it costs 78 nora, which is 1 more nora then Colossal, Tough 1 Fire Giant and he has def 3, tough 1 and resist phys 3. Flameweb spider, with def 3 and damage shield 3. Chosen of Osarius with fire eater and void shield + Tinderbox/Molten Cloak. Bok Raider with Aerial Supremacy. Ruby Crawler + Molten Cloak (4 def, dmg shield 3, aura 2 and mirrored). Etc... these are only a few..
I think the problem is that UD has never evolved along the sacrifical gameplan beyond sac and retri. Like, those two spells created the faction feel right at the release set... but they are still (along with masochism) the only things keeping UD to it's masochistic gameplan. By now I think that should have integrated itself into the heart of the faction, and be expressed through many different runes, working in different ways but keeping to the hurt-myself-to-hurt-you-more principle. In the same way that FW has various attrition runes, UD should have it's style reinforced.
I would love to see that happen. One of the few runes that follow this style is Deep Elf Masochist and it's also a decent tank. @Cinder405
I get it but the use of these spells just doesn't provide too much of an advantage. For example Masochism is a good spell but I feel most of the time the spell does more hurt than help. There has been times where I use the spell to save a champ that contesting a font but most of the time that results in a champion I paid for in full to die.champskills the tempo of my game dramatically. Not to mention most of UDs decent champs are in the 75 nora to 100 range. Sacrifice can help lower that cost by getting some back but the problem is opponents one round champs like crazy these days. I just feel that because of these types of spells it hinders UD because the faction pays the price for in Nora for it. I hope you get where I'm coming from.
It sounds to me like you're not utilizing the spells correctly. Masochism is used to save the front line champs. Chances are the champ you maso is going to die.
Again it really isn't worth losing a champ that may have cost you a hefty 82nora though to save a champions life sometimes. Compare this spell to Bubble in FS. Bubble is 40 Nora but gives a buffer of 30 DMG at no risk of losing a champion.
Are you saying you're using Masochism on an 82 nora champ? It's all about momentum. It better to let one champ in the back die, then 1-2 in the front lines. Also, comparing it to Bubble is still somewhat different since Masochism also has the demon clause attached to it.
Nefari Guardian is pretty good, although he is slow. Works well with Deep Elf Priestess. Relocate, tremor, move in with other guys.
I feel this hits the nail on the head. Most players were often surprised, when I was actively playing, that I didn't run sacrifice in my bg. There have been only two times I explicitly recall, within the past year of playing, where I thought "Sacrifice would be pretty good right now." As mentioned previously, the ease of one-rounding champs has made sacrifice more situational. Furthermore, most UD players sacrifice too early, before the champion has been played to potential. This leads to a very small window wherein sacrifice is actually useful, at least when playing against a decently competent player.
5 speed doesn't matter that much when he's supposed to sit back with defender and his crossbow, antagonize is very nice and masochism works great on undertortoise.
Also take a look at grundelwulf alpha, it's pretty much a walking monster. 16 damage, life siphon, regen 2, calcify, and reflection 4 for 70 nora is pretty dang good.
