I don't see it as an argument at all. You came in and asked some questions, I answered. Then you made up some weird, unclear scenario without context (in fact, I couldn't even understand the post until I read it a few times) to which I asked some clarification question, which you ignored. Then you are like "I AM TRYING TO TEACH YOU WHY I AM RIGHT" Well, if you want to make a case, make it. Otherwise, there's nothing for us to respond to. If that is "dodging," sure, I am dodging. You win an argument I didn't even know we were having. Gratz? ~ TL;DR: I still have no idea what you are talking about.
Wow...its actually disheartening and troubling that so many of you do not believe in our Heavenly Father. Man's #1 sin is that he is greater/smarter than his own good. That = pride. My comments about man having to swallow pride to believe there is a God exist on the Bible's teachings that humility must come before the acceptance of a savior, because without it, one can't be saved, mostly due to the belief, which apparently many of you share, that either you have never done anything wrong (breaking a commandment that God set, his laws) or that you can save yourself. When God created this magnificent planet, he said it was all good. When He created man, it was in His image and it was very good. We are special. We are loved by Him and He chooses to save those that trust in Him through all that He has done (Coming to earth as Jesus, Bible, Creation, Prophets/Preachers, Miracles, etc). Ultimately, every human being must decide to follow Him in faith or not. Regardless if you do or not, He loves you still the same. The problem is, and this is where so many people get tripped up, is that if anyone rejects the many, many, many, many, etc truths and signs He has given to man, then when that person dies and is faced with his creator, the creator must separate Himself from the broken, sinful person that stands before Him because He is a God of perfect love, knowledge, and justice. Its the justice that sends people away from Him. Jesus did things (and they were historically recorded) that man can not do. His works and miracles trump anything that anyone has ever done. It is because He was/is God in flesh. He revealed Himself to us to keep people like @Sokolov from being confused as to if there is a god or not. Had God NOT revealed Himself, then sure, there would be ample reason to be confused about the subject. He came to show us the way. He made it very clear. Satan has done a marvelous work on God's creation to lead it astray. Read this thread if you think that is not true. Many people say, in particular, that Christians "force" their religion and beliefs on others. Well, its not so much a forceful act as it is a commanded act. God tells us to tell others the truth about His coming. The way it works is that once a person has heard the truth, they have two options. Reject it or accept it. No man can force anyone to believe a particular way. That is up to God to grow the seed of knowledge in people's hearts to accept His truths. The Bible tells us plainly that many won't. Being a Christian from the Southern US, I have the luxury of being in like company most of the time with people with my same belief. It is hard for me to comprehend how many of you have come to the beliefs that you have because they are as foreign to me as perhaps my belief is to you. To me however, even if there was NO Bible, it would be plain to me that: A) There is no possible way this perfectly designed earth got here by a mistake. It is obviously created intelligently and not by mere chance. B) Man is clearly the more special beings on the planet. Evolution is a lie and can never and has never worked, so therefore how can man be sentient and everything else not? Because there has to be more! C) The universe is so vast that it makes our head spin. Again, science fails to explain its origins so there must be something greater there. I would never force my beliefs on anyone, but I can certainly make an argument for them just as all of you can. Again, not a single one of you have even attempted to try and explain this earth's origin without the use of God as its creator. Simply put, you can't. Therefore, if you can't, than that means there is a God. If there is a God who is He? Read the Bible, it clearly tells you who He is. It also answers all of the above arguments. Thanks for your time. Bond
The above rarely convinces anyone, but u gots to be true to yourself. None of the posts in this thread are offensive to me. Peeps sharing and such is always win, even if no immediate change occurs. Carry on good sirs.
The fact that we can't explain everything doesn't mean the only answer is "a specific God from one specific religion on one planet." "Man is clearly the more special beings on the planet." <- sounds like "man's #1 sin" according to you to me "The universe is so vast that it makes our head spin. Again, science fails to explain its origins so there must be something greater there." <- or it just means we don't know the answers yet, but sure, it could mean something greater... but nothing here proves that it is Yahweh and not Allah or Krishna or Ahura Mazda The difference between religion and science is that the latter can admit to not having all the answers, while the former presumes it is correct and can explain everything. I, for one, think admitting that you don't know everything is a sign of humility instead of pride. Also, it's not that I can believe I do no wrong, or that I can save myself, but that there's nothing from which to save me if I don't believe in the thing that your God claims dooms me in the first place.
1. Pumpkin Seeds 2. Leather Patch Which would you choose? I am here to tell you that it is #2 is the correct answer. TELL ME WHY. If you don't, you are failing the thought experiment and dodging the argument in order to win it!
Again, in death we will all realize that Romans 14:11 is completely true and that Matthew 7:23 will be extremely not good. I commend you for your faith though Sok. You are a deep rooted man to have read and studied all those religions out there and still hold to the belief that there is nothing out there...maybe...
My belief is that I don't know what's out there and that you can't prove what's out there (in regards to the existence of God) with these sort of arguments. This is quite distinct, as @Ohmin would suggest, than believing there's nothing out there But to be clear, I am not judging your faith or anything. I have been a lot of different services and rituals and respect such traditions. I also do not deny that for many people, faith is an important component of their being. It's just not part of mine at present (this, of course, is subject to change).
It's weird, but I feel like every since Trump came into the media spotlight, I've been using the word "trump" more. It's possible that it is just I am more aware of it when I use it now.
Actually you are pretty faithful and quiet devout in your thinking, as it appears are so many others in this thread. Not sure if the "you" in the "you can't prove what's out there" is directed at me or just people who believe the same way you do. Either way, I have proof about "what's out there."
There are four types of people in the world in regards to religion. 1. Gnostic theists - Certain that a god exists. 2. Agnostic theists - Believe it is more likely that a god exists. 3. Agnostic atheists - Believe it is more likely that a god does not exist. 4. Gnostic atheists - Certain that a god does not exist. @Bondman007 seems like a gnostic theist. @Sokolov would be an agnostic atheist. I am as well. While I am certain that no gods exist, I cannot truly call myself a gnostic atheist as I believe in the scientific method. If I were confronted with incontrovertible scientific evidence, I would have to change my stance.
It always amuses me when religious people try to make out that they know the "real truth" because they have studied fairy tales. If in a hypothetical world, religion didn't exist until today and people would say the same stuff, they'd be mocked/shunned/put away. I don't belief in anything that has no factual basis. Especially when people try to argue a case from a "well you don't know so you can't dismiss it" point of view. I wish more people would be honest about what religion is to them, which in most cases, is an emotional/comforting thing for whatever reason. Purpose/goals/.. who knows. But don't make out like some guys who wrote a book thousands of years ago should have any say about what we should do today. Because when it comes down to it, too often there's cherry picking about what lines fit your agenda best. This is not at anyone in particular, just a /rant.
It's defensive mechanism for peoples fear of death. It's pretty obvious, but even my professor that teaches religious ethics says that. It's pretty simple, but I guess when you're raised in a religious dogmatic enviroment, you're not really "allowed" to question or think otherwise.
