Vashal bg help

Hi, i came back to the game and i want to make a vashal bg but im not sure how to build it and how to play it and didnt find some bgs posted for guide. Can you post your vashal bg and explain how you use it?
(sorry if there are mistakes, my english is bad)

 

This is my most recent vashal bg, but it's still a bit old.

The main vashals are cavalier and mirrorblade.

I like to play my vashal very power-turn orientated. Warcry is key to this, but the grant teleport and all the ap gen also helps a ton. The idea is to shield everything, then run in and kill stuff (trading champs with your opponent). When you do this, you'll gen so much nora you won't know what to do with it, and then can just outdelpoy your opponent.

Remember though: sacrificing a nora shielded rune for not much benefit is definitely not worth it. Don't sac your champs just to generate nora.

 

My issue with vashal is that I don't think their racial suits how they feel.

@Sokolov seems to be designing them with low HP and DEF, but with ways to dodge attacks (e.g. Eremite). Very similar to how ferren function. And this is fine, flavour wise it suits them very well (of course they can't have huge HP pools).

However, this conflicts so much with their racial. When you nora shield a champion, you want that champion to have a very high HP pool, low DEF and not to waste abilities etc dodging attacks (you want to take damage). Yet, vashal keeps getting tools to do exactly the opposite of this - have low HP and rely on dodging a lot of attacks to survive.

I think this is a big reason as to why they feel a bit clunky. I'm not sure what the solution is here, and it might be that the racial has to be changed. But I really dislike the direction they're currently going in. I, also, think there might be a danger of them becoming too similar to ferren.

 

Hi mate, thank you for your post, it help me, i'm using this bg with satisfactory results, 12 wins and 4 lose

There are some runes that can be get out but im testing they, especialy centaur banner and living vines, i dont use them in the most games but the base bg is that, tell me what you think about it and some sugestion or advice will be well received.

 

The trading post is the first rune that jumps out at me for being weak. Just doesnt do enough to justify its cost.

Quillback I'm not the biggest fan of for the same reasons I highlighted earlier (dodging attacks is anti synergy with the racial), but I accept its very efficient.

Definitely put swiftwind in there. With the recent changes, this rune is incredible.

Also, dont be afraid to go a little off theme. Notice I do include non-vashal champs - all of them fit very well in the vashal play style.

 

The trading post was one of the runes that put in to try it, with de def of memento and de magical shield of it the meeles suffer to kill a cavallier or quillback.
Quillback i have to admit that i love it xD i use with block 2 and dodge 2 make it very versatile for defend fonts in disadvantage.
Swiftwind is really good, i put in maybe for the trading post.
I know that some champs off the theme can be a really help with the vashals but its something personal, when i do themes bgs i always put only champs of that theme xD i do not like mixing for example draksars and dragons

 

@Sokolov @Tweek516 has a good point about the racial. The racial seems to call for blows against them so that Nora Shield triggers. Can we get this changed?

 

So, if my understanding is correct, I cast a Seal or chain of Seals on my champ. It then has Nora Shield 1 or 2 because this is a major issue? If it has Nora 1, that is two turns, which means only one in which I take damage, or two if they have Nora 2. I need to basically let my Nora Shielded unit to take damage to gain Nora so that I can redeploy or play another rune. Here is the issue. What unit do I allow to do that? another option is to allow a unit to take a lot of damage only to be resealed through Seal to then in turn take more damage. Is this kind of what you had in mind?

 

Vashals with Defensive Abilities

Vashal Cavalier: Block 1 or Block 2

Vashal Eremite: Bold/Elusive Leap and Nohkando

Vashal Mirrorblade: Reflexes 1, and it can be argued that Mirrorblade can be used defensively.

Vashal Quillback: Block 1 or 2, Dodge 1 or 2, Deflect, Damage Shield: Physical 3

Vashal Quillquip: Immunity: Poison, Shadow Strike, Hidden Vegetation, and it can be argued that Lay Trap Poison Cpoud could be used defensively.

Vashal Ranger: Hunter: Scout allows him to take less damage from certain classes

Woodland Jester: Charm 1-3, and Divert


8 out of 10 Vashals have abilities in some shape or form are there to prevent damage. Vashal Enchanter gan grant abilities to prevent damage as well.

What if Vashals had abilities like Torment, Antagonize, and Spontaneous Regeneration and Life Siphon? Would those abilities really change how Vashals are played?

 

I just wanted to add to my above post. I think that it is essential for Vashals to have defensive abilities. Without them they get steam rolled and can't delay the game long enough to start doing Seals etc.

 

Well, I see where Sok is coming from - it's probably the second most powerful racial in the game (after worms). Nora gen be OP as firk. Changing their abilities to work with their racial would definitely break them - even if you nerfed the champs considerably.

That said, they still feel very clunky to play this way. I'm not entirely sure what the solution is tbh. Maybe after they get some more runes they'll feel less awkward, and I want to avoid a complete design of the racial, but it may just be too inherently powerful.

One of my biggest hates about the racial is that is barely gets stronger by running a vashal bg. One of the reasons rangers were so good is because you could just splash a few independently good vashal in it and then use their racial to great effect. Racials should benefit you for playing a race based bg. The heal is pretty insignificant a lot of the time (well, insignificant compared to the hugely beneficial effect of the nora shield).

 

I played a game earlier and wrecked with them. I think their racial ability is fine as is to be honest.

Vashals were designed to be squishy but defensive if you haven't noticed. If it wasn't for the defense mechanisms an opponent would destroy you with out much difficulty. The defensive abilities just keep the Vashals alive long enough to contest fonts and delay for more Vashals to be deployed. (Preferrably ones with the Seal ability).

I love the Seal abilities healing benefit because opponents will often not finish off your champs because your defense is up almost every turn. With the Seal ability you can heal your champs and get Nora back for damage taken if any next turn. So your opponent either has to attack to destroy it and give you a Nora boost. Or wait to attack and risk you the champion getting healed even more via spells, abilities, or another Seal proc.

 

Yes, I understand how the racial works, and how vashal have been designed. I know how to play them. I'm not proposing that Sok takes away all the defensive abilities. In fact, if you hadn't noticed, I have said many times I don't know what the solution is to the problem I think exists. I am just highlighting that I think this problem is there.

And I specifically said that the healing aspect of the racial is only insignificant when comparing it to the nora shield side of it. It's kinda cute and useful sure, but the nora shield is why you use the ability 9/10 times. Its very inefficient to use seal purely just for the heal - meaning that the racial doesn't really get that much better when you're playing in theme.

And this is not a power issue - their racial is so bonkers it carries them a bit. There is a big difference between a theme feeling clunky/awkward/anti-synergetic and a theme being bad.