Warden vs Deep-Elf Infiltrator

Discussion in 'Underdepths' started by bClef, May 28, 2014.

  1. bClef

    bClef Member

    I'm trying to decide which to use for detection and was wondering which one erebody prefers
     
  2. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I'm a big fan of the infiltrator, though it does take a little while to get the hang of, being able to surprise relocate your big scary stuff is very strong.
     
  3. GabrielQ

    GabrielQ I need me some PIE!

    between those two, I would choose infiltrator as stealth + detection is better than plain detection and she has potential as badgerale said.
    However, as the current state of the meta, I wouldn't leave a nefari griefbearer out of my UD bg, sever summons, dispel and detection on a single unit with decent stats -> yes, please.
     
  4. MakarovJAC

    MakarovJAC I need me some PIE!

    Whoever said Wardens are runable? They were optional back then, they are now shoeboxed once Infiltrator and Griefbearer got released.
     
  5. allyorbase

    allyorbase I need me some PIE!

    Pin Down and the ranged off-attack on a flying unit with decent DMG makes her at least runnable. Don't forget that she has Precision, too. Precision isn't always helpful, but when it is, it REALLY is. Her Blood Offering ability is also one of the few ways you can insta-detonate a champ with Bloodless.

    I don't include her because of detection, but for her other uses -- although Detection is still a gimme Upgrade choice, even then.
     
  6. Tfguy

    Tfguy Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I always run 2 detectors in my BG one being the Griefbearer and the other an Infiltrator. She's a really solid rune and Train Strike can be very valuable in UD as well when you meet some high def opponents.

    Edited to say that Bok Warden is a very solid include as well. Flying is great and she's overall very runnable as well, doesn't beat Griefbearer though for his obvious swiss knife capabilities. To conclude, Warden is far from shoebox. It depends on the rest of your BG if she is a good include or not.
     
    allyorbase likes this.
  7. Hekatian

    Hekatian The King of Potatoes

    I take Infiltrators over Warden because of the stealth and relocation it brings. Plus Train: Strike is a UD group is just.... Awesome.
     
  8. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    Warden does a better job at anti-detect with the extra range of detection + Pin Down and flight to make finding what you're looking for easy. I got her buffed twice now so I'm a bit biased but even in the current meta she's far from shoebox.

    Infiltrator is more useful and is more valuable if you don't need the detection. Overall, unless you particularly want Pin Down DEI wins. Stealth+Detect is definitely a plus that shouldn't be overlooked.

    But if you just want Detection by far the best option comes via Minotaur Sentry.
     
    Skullferno likes this.
  9. Skullferno

    Skullferno I need me some PIE!

    You guys are forgetting Minotaur Sentry. Detection 3, Block 2, Evassive 3, Throw Axe, decent stats for 61 nora. Plus you can run other mino's in your meta bg like Flamecrusher and Mage, which benefit from the door ability he has. If not he is still an awesome champ all the way around.
     
  10. caine1138

    caine1138 Well-Known Member

    Infiltrator with confuse enemy and hit and run. Cause you get ap from confuse enemy triggering. Very nifty...

    Best Depths detection champion, imo.
     
  11. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    griefbearer is actually pretty solid , drudgery and sever summons.....he is still my detect choice
     
  12. Legato

    Legato I need me some PIE!

    Well timed Drudgery wins games, It's funny since no one thinks about it as a 'speed' or 'draw-win' rune, but I recall winning many a game where the opponent just forgot that could happen and left themselves just outside font grabbing range, 'saving' ap. He's the pick when summons run rampant.

    If we're mentioning all the viables though definitely don't forget Stitched Librarian, definitely one of my favorites, and auto if you even run 1 add/remove charge rune.
     
  13. Raikan

    Raikan I need me some PIE!

    This interaction never occurred to me...impressive.
     
    caine1138 likes this.
  14. Shimaru

    Shimaru Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Hands down, the DE infiltrator. After the expansion, I spend quite some time experimenting with her, and I found her to be much more versatile, and honestly, I think she is one of the best designed champions right now, and hopefully doesn't get a huge nerf or complete makeover on the revamp.

    For starters, people tend to forget about scramble, which on its own is an incredible handy ability. A double hit from a (previously) stealth champion with scramble is quite an unexpected movement, and combined with PoV is a power turn on its own. Granted, is situational at best, and quite often is better to use relocate ally and proc scramble once so your alpha striker gets a double hit on a specific champion, but having the possibility to choose between relocating a single champion to kill a specific target, or generating additional AP for several champions puts her ahead of the warden.

    Stealth and detection have been said over and over are very good, so I will not touch that.

    However, one word of caution: do not take hit & run with confuse enemy. Hopefully they have changed it lately with the bug patches, but the last time I ran it, I found it bugged. Basically, after CE procs, H&R stops working for that turn. I suppose, a mere supposition, that when CE procs, it relocates the champion 3 spaces away, which H&R considers to fulfil the condition "This effect may trigger up to 3 times per turn". However, as the DE Infiltrator didn't spend AP on movement, it neither gets refunded any AP, so for practical purposes, CE completely negates H&R.

    Personally, I think both are kind of weak as upgrades, although H&R is fun in a trolling sense. Hit, stealth and get the freak out of there. If the opponent is aware of H&R, they will assume the DE Infiltrator is at very least 3 spaces away, but more often than not, up to 5 spaces, so unless they had stored AP or more than one champion, is unlikely they will bump on her and hit on the same turn. Most players don't bother. Now, if the UD players plays his cards right, the opponent will not be aware of H&R, so they will assume she is closer than her actual position. "So, she hit my elf once and was left with 3ap, 2ap on stealth, 1ap for movement. Ha, she must here! Oh, then she must there! Wait, what? Ok, she only had 1ap the only place she could go is right here! WTF?!". Unfortunately, rebuke is a quite popular ability right now, and H&R counts as generating AP, so any champion with rebuke will work as detection of sorts against her. Still, better option than CE.

    As for CE, honestly, I am not a fan at all of this ability. Is good to disengage, but the relocation effect is a bit random for my preferences, and honestly H&R is much more fun for the reason exposed above. CE may save AP in disengagement (by example, if 2 champions are engaging her), and does works well with call of the hunter (iirc, is possible to engage, proc CotH, hit once to trigger CE and keep RA to relocate a champion that otherwise would be unreachable), but overall is the "random" aspect of the relocating what kills its utility for me. I know there are rules about knock backs and relocation, is just I am too lazy to learn them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014

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