Well it has started

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by chickenpox2, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Woah easy on the human trafficking.
     
    Ohmin likes this.
  2. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I really try my best to stay out of political discussion (especially US politics), but this sort of mindset scares me.

    Rather than living in the murky swamp of opinion and counter opinion, narrative and counter narrative, where we try to weasel out what could maybe, possibly, be the right path... Some people really do believe in the righteousness of their cause and the pure evil of the other. Absolute, unadulterated, good and bad.

    Which sounds a bit Firking ISIS to me.
     
    Ohmin likes this.
  3. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    There are more things in Heaven and Earth, chickenpox2, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    I believe such things exist... but I tend to think of them in terms of actions or happenings, rather than people. It may be that there is a person that is absolute evil, but I haven't the ability to judge such. An absolute good I would consider to be Jesus... a rather special case though, and not repeated by even His most devout followers. People are often both, if any such description can properly be applied. And really, the most "good" person can do the most evil of things, and the most "evil" person can do the most good of things. For example, even if one has chosen to do evil all their life so far, so long as they live, they can make a new choice; though it may not be easy, nor will any act good or ill undo any previous act. [badjoke]Not even pressing CTRL-Z![/badjoke]
     
  4. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Let me rephrase it to immoral and slightly more moral
     
  5. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    And yet you say there is no possible way for me to equivocate Democrats and Republicans? That if I don't tell the difference I am no better than a murderer? (Thus, implying I'm deserving of imprisonment and/or execution?)

    If, rather than "pure good" or "pure evil" it is indeed more murkey... where then do you condemn me or anyone else for having a different perspective? What is the basis for your assertation? We're all accountable for what we say and do, one way or another. If we let blind hatred get the best of us, even for a key moment, we'll unduly harm ourselves and others.

    As I have alluded to before, there is more to politics (even in the US) than merely "us vs. them" or "red team vs. blue team." And to help illustrate this... there's the Gamestop Stock Short Squeeze story. Or Hedge Fund vs. Retail Investor. And the subsequent actions by media and financial "elite" to try and rig it for the Hedge Funds; and the political fallout where, quite frankly, the party line becomes meaningless in the face of classism.

    Recognizing that there's more than "team sports" at play in politics is one of the first ways of getting past the "easy" and illogical ways people attack others based on which party they appear to support at a given time. There is still, I think, struggles between good and evil to be sure... but the world is more complicated than most news media and politicians would have us believe. It's filled with great and terrible things, ready to be discovered by each person for the very first time.
     
  6. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    I'm not wishing you do die I'm just saying that what you think is "moral" is, is not, foolish or not they hurt other people intentionally and that is equivalent to a murder murdering people there is no way to justify that kind of logic.

    Lie cheat screw whoever you want and believe whatever you want but when they start becoming a hindrance to progress of another then they are a problem.

    You do realise that Joe Biden had to rectoactively reverse everything Trump did?

    If you truly believe in a better America then you realise the Dems are atleast trying to move forward unlike the republicans who are self centered jerks and literally their whole party is just trumpheads.

    That's my point
     
  7. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    XD eda wwas z
     
  8. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    I am going to risk making an assumption, and assume you are speaking primarily of the Jan 6th incident at the Capital building... Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

    I wish to be clear, I in no way endorse violence outside of a means of defense from unwarranted violence. I have absolutely no problem with prosecuting those that participated in such acts, and I have no interest in defending it. Nor lying, cheating, nor "screwing people over" whether it's "harmless" or not.

    Nor do I condone forceful entry into the capital during secured proceedings (likewise, then-President Trump also condemned the actions, and urged for peace and for people to "go home" after learning of the incident)... however... if you wish to use that incident to say that the Democrats are better than Republicans... I would remind you of the multiple attacks on federal buildings, statues, local law enforcement, and people in general throughout the nation during 2020. Though a group of armed Leftists took over a small section of Seattle it was called the "summer of love"... and though people were killed and reports of other crimes went on from within the area called "CHAZ", it was not until the politicians' homes were threatened that they allowed troops to move in and clear the area (which they did quickly, proficiently, and without further loss of life during that action).

    How many police officers were assassinated throughout the year? How much more did violent crime rise in communities when the police were told to stand down and/or got defunded? How many small businesses were destroyed by arson-happy criminals claiming to do so in the name of "racial justice"?

    I hold no love for the Republican party, but I will say this. Again, there is more to politics than what you appear to be seeing. What you've been fed. If you think that Republicans "literally their whole party is just trumpheads" than you clearly haven't been paying attention. Not to what happened the night of Jan. 6th, nor during the first impeachment attempt, etc. In my view, statements such as this come from an emotional argument, not a logical one. It is based in hatred or fear of "the other" and does not hold up when subjected to calm scrutiny.

    If you learn nothing else my lengthy posts than this, take it to heart. Politics in the United States is not as simple as most media, or politicians, would have you believe.

    It can be easy to quickly judge others, when you do not see them, but rather a mere effigy. Likewise it can be easy to put others on a pedastal, when you do not see them in full, but only those things they present to you, or perhaps merely what you wish to see.

    This, I think, is that last time I'll post in this thread for some time at least, as I'm starting to be overly repetitive. Be well.
     
  9. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    You say they aren't bad and media is skewed where your proof that they actually will change?
    If you can give proof I can agree, make me change my mind
     
  10. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    What a disappointing outcome he got away with inciting violence on the capitol

    Sigh
     
  11. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    He didn't "get away" with a crime, he was acquitted of charges of a crime. These are two very different things.

    The first presupposes his guilt (which the evidence so unsupported that the House Managers apparently felt the need to manipulate the evidence presented to the Senate...). The second acknowledges his innocence or at least the lack of evidence to prove guilt (and people are normally considered innocent until proven guilty).

    Out of curiousity, did you observe the proceedings yourself? Or at least the Defenses presentation? Or have you relied on media reports? Because as far as skewed media (which you asked about on the 1st)... the defense presentation did provide evidence on that point.
     
  12. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Nope have you seen the defence it was bad, they didn't even argue because they knew the majority of republicans already decided to vote to acquit him.

    They simply don't care, there was enough evidence
     
  13. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    I saw the defense, they did put out an argument. If you think they did not, you're either misinformed or delusional. Possibly both.

    There was clearly not enough evidence, or else he would have been convicted; or the House Managers would have been able to put on their case without tampering with evidence.

    But here's another example for you in terms of media skewing things.

    Trump was (at least by some outlets, and seemingly yourself) blamed for all the COVID-19 deaths that happened under his administration. I, for one, am not inclined to blame pandemic deaths on administrations, but that was the standard of the media outlets of the time.

    Now, they tend to not even track the number of deaths, let alone blame the current administration.


    Do you know what "projection" is?

    Even before Jan 6th you decided that Trump was "guilty." That he was/is evil incarnate. A "mass murderer" even without any evidence or proper logic to say otherwise. This is called "prejudice" and it's something most people I know tend to want to avoid; it is also generally accompanied by a certain type of apathy towards new information, evidence, developments... and any truths that would counter that prejudice. This prejudice is something you've been fed by propagandists... but it is up to you to accept it and cling to it even in the face of calm and logic, when there is no-one around you to project onto. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are rightist politicians and people that are equally prejudiced. It's that sort of thing that, after all, no doubt justified storming the capital building even before Congress had properly started doing their work that day. It's what justifies most atrocities no matter who carried them out.

    I know well what it's like to be irrational, I'm older than a lot of the people that still post here, but when I was a kid I had a lot of issues with being angry. It was always "justified" in my head at the time... but over time I'd get over it and have to look back at my words and deeds when I was angry... I suppose I could have gone with "pride" more, hardened my heart and clung to the justifications, clung to the anger and hatred and bitterness... but by the grace of God I tended to accept my faults when I was indeed wrong. I still do.

    I know it is not the "easy" thing to do. But setting aside anger and evaluating things honestly with yourself... testing whether those emotions you've felt are truly justified and if so what the best way to utilize them (if any) is... it's worth it.

    As I've said before... there is an entire world out there waiting for you to discover it... but you won't be able to see it as you are now. At least not for what it truly is.

    God bless, and farewell.
     
  14. Gaverion

    Gaverion I need me some PIE!

  15. Vash Dragneel

    Vash Dragneel I need me some PIE!

    @Ohmin please tell me you don't deny that there is a pandemic. There's too many people out there that refuse to wear masks or follow any of the other guidelines out there.
     
  16. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Do you know what projection is tell me oh wise one, Sage of a thousands views

    like i said republican senetors and the core votes only care about one thing White superiority they want to live in the past where they owned slaves and were better than everyone else. They spit on equality and will continuously try to drag the other side down to feel the nostalgia 50 years ago.

    The dems on the other hand want change and betterment of others, and the republicans sometimes get what they want by voting blue, like I said at their core they don't care for change because majority are poor rural folks.
     

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