Whats up with the complete overhaul patches lately?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BurnPyro, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    The August 19th one, now this one.

    Everything gets nerfed, then everything gets buffed. Just a heads up, there isn't a world championship coming up, you don't have to pull a Riot Games and blow up the whole meta and balance every time.

    Honestly
     
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  2. DrSteve

    DrSteve I need me some PIE!

    Except the meta before the last giant patch was IS, KF, and Skeez facerolling everything else. Then it was the same except skeezick suck. Didn't really blow up the meta tbh. Seems like the main goal is to knock down the meta dominating champs a few pegs and give some shoebox buffs, which is a good thing imo.
     
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  3. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Yeah, I just wrote the same idea on that patch thread. Blows my mind.
    Too much time/energy spent on wrong things, Im actually glad I dont play anymore.
     
  4. Netherzen

    Netherzen I need me some PIE!

    I like the patch,nerfs and buffs are a constant,i dont really see the issue.
     
  5. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Well, you might not see it, but its a HUGE problem, at least for me.
     
  6. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    Someone who has quit until we get back to 1000 players.

    Why should we listen to you again?
     
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  7. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Dude, whats up with all you guys taking jabs at me? Firk you all, I owe you nothing and neither you guys to me.
    You should listen to me for the main reasons you always have and always asked for advice: I'm a guy who is passionate about the game, has great and deep game knowledge, have helped the game's design for 3 years and can get back into it at any time and reach top 10 spot. What do you have going for you, sport? Figured as much.
    Either way, constant balance patches are bad because:
    1) It doesnt let people adapt to the meta. Its much easier to just ask for stuff to be nerfed/buffed, if the balance patches slowed down it would help increase players skill;
    2) Players have to be totally in check with forums/playing everyday to keep up with the changes. I have not played in 6 months now, I bet I cant recognize most of the runes I played with;
    3) Balance is already a problem as is, buffing shoeboxed runes creates more problem and do more harm than good in the long run, because it takes a while for people to realize how good something is.

    But yeah, listen to me or not, I dont care. Im not doing this for you, Im doing this for Pox. Take it easy champ.
     
  8. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    I have no problem with you and never had any problem with you. But it seems like all you do is come back here to complain. Don't you see how that would be annoying after a while?
     
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  9. Willow

    Willow I need me some PIE!

    haha oh Bane Shift dude lmao we said it at the same time *high fives buddha*
     
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  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Patch: people complain about what gets changed
    Don't Patch: people ask where the patch at
     
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    But yea, no, this wasn't "everything gets nerfed" and "everything gets buffed." I don't even know what that means. This also wasn't a "complete overhaul."

    I mean, I'd be interested in a seeing a list of things that got nerfed with the expansion but got buffed here so I can understand what you are asking.

    The last couple of patches focused a lot on ability recostings, so there's going to a bunch of minor cost adjustments across the board in both cases. I hope we aren't talking about that, because a rune going -3 nora isn't exactly blowing up the meta.
     
    mw24 likes this.
  12. Willow

    Willow I need me some PIE!

    Ignore that bozo. Dont get your noodles in a bunch. You're doing a great job.
     
    mw24 likes this.
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Honestly, I feel like maybe some people are just looking at the size of these notes. This is partly why we didn't do the nora changes before because it makes them look HUGE even tho the changes are actually often quite small. Remove the nora changes and you don't have very many changes per faction at all.

    FW's notes are larger this time too because of Boon change (i.e. if all that changed was that it lost Boon from base, even at no cost decrease, it'd show up on these notes because the rune changed).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  14. Lonewatch

    Lonewatch Member

    maybe you could make a separate post at the end of the patch notes about nora cost changes. It would make the actual patch changes seem smaller.
     
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  15. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I feel the nora changes are exactly what impacts the meta the most.
    I don't buy this: "a rune going -3 nora isn't exactly blowing up the meta". It just might, since nora is such a important resource. I know, I know: Im not playing anymore, but nora costs changes are always very impactful.
    I feel the changes are pretty big, specially if you consider that reducing an abilities cost affects all the champions with the ability, which isnt really a handful (or is it?).
    Either way, maybe Im overreacting, but notice that this is just my opinion, now that I shared it Im done with this topic. Sorry for any rudeness.

    Thats your impression, but not only yours. People tend to remember the negative and forget about the positive. Everytime something happens I come here and either complain or give props, depending on my perception of the change. Its all point of view, just like you thinking Im being annoying is a point of view. Im sure that are some folks who appreciate the message, even though I dont deliver it nicely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am not saying they have no impact, but I don't classify them as "overhaul" or "blowing up the meta." I mean, the alternative to doing ability re-costings incrementally like this is to spend a few weeks trying to do them all at once, and functionally changing every rune in the game by +/- nora all over the place via different abilities (which would seem to be counter to your suggestions of changing fewer variables at once). The downside to that approach is mostly that the quality of those changes will be fairly low, as doing things in huge batches tends to make each change less scrutinized.

    So instead, I pick a bunch of abilities/ability sets to recost with each patch. It's actually been the case for awhile now, but I think people haven't noticed as much because, once again, the nora costs weren't shown before.
     
    Sirius likes this.
  17. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    I see, makes more sense. I gotta be honest here and say that I probably didn't notice at all, since to be fair I'm not playing so I'm not diving deep.
    Constant patches, though. Ugh.
    If there is something I learned from playing HS is that you definitely need to give people time to test stuff and not bend to players will of nerfing/buffing everything - I'm not saying you do that, I'm saying it as a general rule of thumb, if you will.
    Heck, when I joined HS Ragnaros was the most OP rune of all and everyone wanted it nerfed, now look at it: iffy include at the most, and it did not get changed since then.
    I still agree with BP, though, I think you can definitely cut on the amount of patches, specially the ones that concerns buffs to runes. I'd rather see the shoebox buff round once every couple of months.
     
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I definitely want to get to a point where patches are fewer and focused largely on fixing stuff with new content. But there's still a lot of work to be done from the revamp fallout and years of ability costings being neglected.
     
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  19. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Fair enough.
     
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    So that kind of means it got powercreeped out then? I remember when I was paying more attention to HS and watching tournaments and such too that Ragnaros was in every high ranked player's decks basically.

    Funny thing is last expansion cycle he was the one asking where the patch was when we didn't do one as early. But yea, I'd classify this as a minor shoebox buff round. And the expansion patch was theme overhaul for Salaman and Ferren primarily. There may have been some fixes to old runes here and there, but it certainly wasn't my focus.

    Heck, for the first 6 months or so when I came back, I mostly nerfed stuff. People were actually pretty annoyed I hadn't been buffing things (including, I think, you; I remember some discussions on the ST forums about how bad ST was and what needed buffing, including the font bonus, lonx, etc.).
     

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