Why is every IS deck in the game not using pitfighter?

Discussion in 'Ironfist Stronghold' started by GoldTiger, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. GoldTiger

    GoldTiger I need me some PIE!

    Title^

    2 def
    tough 2
    scrapper
    rend 3
    can get brew

    Is actually a genuine question.
     
  2. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff The King of Potatoes

    80 nora for 50hps is a bit expensive for a pure melee hitter even if he has fire damage.
    if his scrapper and 2def did help in anyway vs ability damage his survivailibity would be very much better, think he is great vs IS and maybe against KF
    if i want to put down a meleebrute for 80 nora i would rather use battle ragers or ironfist brawler, since they are dwarf and if i get out a defender/commander/battlemaster they get helped a little by shared race
    but against FW, SL, SP, ST, FS their auras, novas, cones makes him an expensive meatshield, could work great against UD if they dont have fire eaters

    gotta admit that i havent used this champ alot, mine is still at level 2 .-) tried him mostly in barbarian decks where he is just not fitting.
     
  3. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Pro Tip: Use Feint on adjacent enemies to trigger Clamp so you can use Submission Hold.
     
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  4. GoldTiger

    GoldTiger I need me some PIE!

    Id rather +5 damage no? Submission hold seems rather menial, why disable when you can just straight up kill.

    And 80 nora sounds about right given the rest of the champions in your faction. If you compare him to a similarly priced meta Prismatic Skywing, he seems almost exclusively better as a pure tank.

    Seems quite similar to Valdaci Shieldwarden, how on earth do you kill something with:
    AoE defense (tough 2/combat awareness 1)
    Spell Defense (IS bonus/Weaken Spells)
    Attack Defense (2def + tough2 + scrapper/2 def + bold)

    By then that's 100s of eHP to grind through. Are there any other sorts of damage in the game bar FW that gets through all of this? Not to mention you can still buff the Bane Shift out of both and pitfighter has ~15 damage base on top of those stats.

    PS FS has no auras/novas, don't even know what champs have poison aura (I know I can check).
     
  5. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    Depends. I use Warchief Inauguration in my deck so it would be redundant for me. If you dont run the spell then taking Blood Clan on pitfighter is likely optimal.
     
  6. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff The King of Potatoes

    Submission hold dont trigger scrapper ability though, and for 4 AP its just not that good, still testing it more. kinda fun to lock down enemy. Noticed teleporting enemies sucks since they just port away.
    Well maybe not auras/novas in FS, but how many bombs, waves, splashes, pings or other types that ignore defense are there?
     
  7. GoldTiger

    GoldTiger I need me some PIE!

    Pinger is largely worthless even in psy. Tide master is usually a 1x at best depending on the BG. There are a few bombs but nothing compare to SL/IS. Besides this all gets reduce by tough 2 anyways, including the secondary effects. At most you're realistically dealing -6-10dmg from these for each unit every 3 turns. That seems like a waste when you can use it to whack ranged for ~15 dmg. Anyways this part is irrelevant.

    I recommend you guys start giving it a go it's insane value and there is always the infamous IS healing need it be required.

    If you don't want him you can always lend him to FS. I'm sure he would be used/complained about there ;)
     
  8. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff The King of Potatoes

    Tried it a bit more, but he is not worth it compaired to ranged units or cheap melee meat-shields, or heavy hitting pummel brutes or multipurpose runes like barb guardian.
    If we want a melee expensive rune, we got Bastion, zedin, truthseekers, magnus...
    just saying what my problem is when testing him, its the constant aoe/ability damages that goes through defense/scrapper. Enemy melee is rarely a problem, unless you consider range 1-5 melee

    he would be useless in FS as he is, sure if he got the correct race, class changed to trigger off synergies then he would probably be brutal.
    (if he would be cleansed/healed by CtE, protected by dwarf defender/battlemaster/commander...)
    my last fight with him vs FS he was turned to a snail and killed off later :)

    ive almost given up healing, so much counters to it, or heavy hitting champs that keeps getting +1dmg/turn its better to deploy combat champs/AP gen/mobility/cc then a healer

    Anyway thanks for making me test this champ a bit more
    //Hiero
     
  9. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    what is the number for the **** hot line again?
     
  10. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff The King of Potatoes

    Did test him again and he is really good combined with the new wild chieftain as a melee combo monster duo. a bit weak but that does the wild chief help buff up. Now if IS just had a physical dmg tool somehow (beside heavy crossbow), because all of the fire eaters/mirror champs makes him so useless.
     
    OriginalG1 likes this.
  11. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    In short, melee units over 75 nora need to be highly scrutinized before adding them to a deck. Scrutiny of this unit notes that being caught in battle without being able to activate scrapper is a fairly large vulnerability. I perfer an always-strong unit. If I ran him, it'd be with t1 and feint.

    The better your opponent the more likely they will be able to deploy/cast in order to delay and let scrapper fall off in order to 1 round him the next round (or force you to dump nora on him to save him).

    In lower ranks you'd likely get to make good use of scrapper, causing his worth to increase by decreasing the chance of his vulnerability.
     
  12. MrCharles

    MrCharles Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Just acquired this guy and have been having some fun playing around with him the last couple of games. I believe the concept behind this guy was that you could have a frontline melee beater that has the ability to lockdown a ranged unit or OP unit for a few turns. The alt dmg is a bonus b/c it's something I feel is lacking with the barbarian theme unfortunate that it's fire and I have been seeing alot of fire bg's as of late.

    I do agree with what most on this thread finding it a bit expensive for what it brings to the table. It feels a bit too slow without support and too expensive.

    Would a rearrangement and/or slight change to the current abilities/upgrades on this rune make it more viable?

    My Thoughts:

    1) I would switch the place of feint with that of scrapper from their current spots on the base ability and the 3rd upgrade line respectively.

    2) Add combat awareness tier 1 as an option on the first upgrade line.

    3) Change to Submission Hold - Either lower the activation cost or change it so that it's no longer an attacking ability but a buff to basic attacks that you could potentially set a round or two earlier. Something along the lines of 4 AP for the next 4 turns the first basic attack this champion makes (fill in existing explanation of ability). Possibly expand it's activation condition so that it includes one of or some combination of the following: stunned, immobile, awestruck, or paralyzed champions.

    This would allow you to prep the submission hold attack a couple turns before you run-in to engage an enemy. It would be nice to see some kind of setup where your pit fighter could run-in (or jump if you wanted to add a leap option somewhere) and clamp down two adjacent targets in one turn.

    In general I would prefer more health over defense at this point in time so it would be cool to change that around a bit.

    Anybody else got ideas here?
     
  13. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    @MrCharles
    - Yeah it clearly appears like the core of this guy was intended to be Feint + Clamp + Submission hold. It's a cute interaction but is a lot of hoop jumping for basically what amounts to a stun. Now clamp is great on it's own and is passive and feint has it's niche uses ... but largely I think the best solution is a revamp of "submission hold".

    - Since "Submission Hold" is only on this champ I believe you have some freedom to tweak it. I would change submission hold to an all encompassing attack on the chain for +1ap with a cd of 2 or 3.

    Submission Hold - This champion makes an attack on target enemy champion at +1ap. If successful, target enemy champion becomes stationary for 2 turns. If the enemy champion is below 50% max hps it also becomes pacified for 2 turns.

    - This way it is easier to clean up the upgrade lines and basic abilities. For example, with this change you can remove Clamp from base and feint from upgrade lines.

    - Warchief is meh... but I guess flavorful. He does need damage mitigation but I think tough and scrapper is overkill unless we want this guy full tank but he seems between tank and beater. More to come...
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    MrCharles likes this.
  14. MrCharles

    MrCharles Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Hmmm I think I may like your idea better. I would also like to see submission hold added as a different type of dmg from his base (currently fire). I was also wondering if the storm clan wouldn't be a better fit for him (I can't for the life of me figure out why we keep getting that ability on ranged units) as opposed to his blood clan or as an additional upgrade option.
     

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