Young Turks reveal the truth about USA Police Violence and it's roots.

For those of you saying that the perpetrator should be shot in the arm/leg, have you ever fired a pistol? Accurately hitting a moving target at a range is difficult at best. Add in the adrenaline from the situation and it's even more difficult. There are also major arteries in the arms and legs that would still be lethal. If you're firing a gun at someone, you should only do so if you intend to kill them. This isn't the movies.

I agree that shootings do occur too often, and that the police in the US need to adopt different tactics. There are many less lethal alternatives that should be used before a gun. The decision to use deadly force occurred too early in the videos linked by @BurnPyro. The video @Sokolov linked looks like straight up murder.

I don't have a problem with emptying the magazine once the decision to use deadly force is made. If you're willing to use deadly force, the situation should be so dire that it is a "his life or my life" decision. It's similar to what my karate instructor said when I was a kid. He taught me to do everything I could to avoid a fight. Reason with the other person, run, hide, get someone with authority involved, or anything else to avoid violence. If violence is the only option, make sure that you're the only one walking away from the fight. In his example he was referring to leaving an attacker hurt enough that they can't pursue after a fight, but it's the same idea.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the scope of this thread
American police culture can and should change, but cops here, those that work the shady areas of town, do fear for their lives

Which is why I agree with DJ on that particular point
I live in Highland Park, Los Angeles which is an area of the city predominately claimed by the hispanic gang "Avenues." Many of them own weapons and will not hesitate to use them
I have a black friend who can't walk a block or two to the Firking nearby 99 cent store to buy a snack without being hit up by gang members asking what set he reps
They recently built a starbucks here that was rated the ugliest starbucks in america because it was constantly being tagged by the avenues
avenue members were posting up in front of it, picking fights, selling drugs
why?
a friend has a brother who used to be into the LA gang life (gang called the st paul's) before he had his son (now he just low key sells weed, so some kind of improvement) and said that the reasoning was starbucks brings more white ppl
More white people means more cops
This was their reasoning. Does it make sense? i dont Firking know

Point is cops ARE rational in fearing being shot


Nonetheless improvements must be made

 

Are rubber bullets or mid/long range tazers not an option? Serious question. Seems like a lot of these types of things can be mitigated with such precautions

 

You US guys HAVE to start understanding that your police doctrines are NOT the only bloody police doctrines in the bloody world.

 

if fear is this big deciding factor your cops are badly trained, too soon do they switch to shooting.

and while making sure a treath is eliminated is fine theres a bit of an issue when people are shot and fall down and then shots continue as puffs of ricochets bounce of the pavement around the dead person.

so, marovok or however you spell your name, why you signling me out? I'm calm as all Firk

that's racist.

 

You were the one who responded to DJ
Anyways I removed that part of the post, I could've singled you out in a more polite way

All I'm saying is they DO have a rational fear
You don't understand what it's like

Should they be trained better? Are there issues that should be taken care of?
No Bane Shift.
Obviously.


Political correctness is king here
Hard to be racist against whites

 

apparently they pull it off though. well at least you didn't imediatly deny that people can hve racist views on white people and then accuse me of personally comiting genocide and enslaving the people of africa like SaintKiwi would have done so:

 

Stopped reading right there when I linked two cases that have people standing still in them.

I thought cops got fire arms training in the USA as well, don't tell me they can't shoot someone in the leg from a 2m distance when standing still.

 

apparently they shake in fear too much for that.

 

I mean, it's not that hard to become a cop here so probably

 

now im not so sure I was making a joke anymore.

 

Haha yeah, it's pretty easy to become a cop here
When @BurnPyro said he had to go through 6 exams I was genuinely surprised

Speaking of which, @BurnPyro , are you done? Or is there something more you've got to do?

 

I liked for the epicness of Saitama.

 

This country needs criminal justice reform on a systemic level desperately, but it isn't happening. Is it surprising? No. Is it worth talking about? Yes.

The fear in this country is real in basically every arena of life. We're seeing atrocities committed so often they have become literally quotidian. I don't think that the US will be capable of resolving some of its more entrenched issues without reaching a violent breaking point first.

 

I do realize that there are other doctrines, which is exactly why I said that different tactics are needed for the police in the US.

In both of the videos guns shouldn't have been used at all. If you read my full post I mention that deadly force is used far to easily in the US. A gun should never be considered an option for anything other than deadly force. There are too many parts to the human body that could cause a shot to the arm/leg to still be fatal.

 

this sounds weird, they pull guns but they shouldn't have but now that they have better kill a man?

to me it sounds like:
well I should have studied but now that I'm going to fail that exam I might as well shoot up the school.

see I agree that we should have studied but I also think failing that we don't actually need to kill people on purpose, yeah accidents happen, less than lethal weapons (tasers, pepperspray) also occasionally causes a death. so does that mean they should be abbandoned?

 

I don't want to comment on US stuff too much, but I believe that not arming police in the UK, along with a customer service mentality, has proved itself a massive success - setting in motion a virteous circle which has reduced the worst end of violent crime.

I think that feeling safe interacting with a policeman/women is invaluable if there is to be any trust there. I don't think that could happen if they had the means to easily kill you, or an attitude that presumes guilt.

I think it also means that, contrary to arguments made by the American right, that criminals are very unlikely to carry guns. There is simply no incentive to do so given the massive risk it involves, the only reason I can think of is if a specific crime required one (murder, armed robbery).

I would guess that being a serious criminal in the US almost requires a gun as defense against those that are ready and willing to kill you.

I don't want to sound preachy, since our system is far from perfect, but when I see police in London (which is a very long way from a cosy socialist utopia) I see men and women of every race and religion who treat their job as helping people not as fighting for justice. They are not 'warriors' they are civil servants.

 

I'm used to being ignored so I take no shame in quoting myself

In case you guys missed... I'm pretty curious about this if anyone knows and it fits the topic of the discussion.

 

In those videos they never should have pulled guns in the first place. They should be using less than lethal weapons. Like you said, tasers, pepper spray, bean bag rounds, and other less than lethal options occasionally cause a death, but that is not the norm. Even when a gunshot isn't lethal, the damage inflicted often lasts a lifetime. My understanding is the less than lethal options have little to no long term effects.

What I'm saying is "A gun should never be used unless lethal force is intended."

To use your analogy, there are many options that should be exhausted.
1) Learn the material in class when the teacher covers it.
2) Learn the material by rereading it.
3) Learn the material by working with a tutor.
4) Learn the material by studying with a classmate.
5) Shoot up the school since I'm going to fail. (I used this as the final option since that was used in your analogy.

 

and I am saying: now that failure is certain/ a gun has been pulled don't: shoot up the school/KILL KILL KILL MURDER DESTROY BANG BANG BANG.