Young Turks reveal the truth about USA Police Violence and it's roots.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BurnPyro, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I agree that it's not an easy situation in some cases. However, police are given a lot of leeway by the legal system in these cases already. If a police pulls a gun on YOU and you are "afraid for your life" and shoot the cop due to "adrenaline" it is NOT a valid defense. You will be tried, and you will be guilty. But a cop can get away with this defense (and almost always does, even if the person they shot was not armed or even running at them in reality).

    My problem is three-fold:
    • cases where police don't seem to be held accountable when it does seem police are not trained properly or was at least negligent (for example, the video I linked where the guy was neither running at the police or armed... in fact, he is trying to get himself out of a vehicle that just flipped over and was still on its side - it's clear he shouldn't even have had his gun out in the first place in that kind of situation)
    • cases where police are shooting thru the window from the side of vehicle as the vehicle is going away from them (there's a lot of these, usually the cop claims they were "afraid of getting hit" by the car, but usually make no movement to try and get out of the way and in some cases they are even moving WITH or TOWARDS the vehicle instead)
    • cases where it seems the police are the ones escalating the situation, creating a problem where there wasn't one
    And a lot of this is consistent with the way police behave in other instances, even outside of potentially hostile situations. For example, with the whole Civil Forfeiture business where police will tailgate you until you make a mistake just to pull you over so they can ask you if you have money in the car so they can seize it (this issue has had some Congressional hearings and even a bill proposed, but it is currently stalled and no real action has been taken for some time). I mean, how do you expect to react to that stuff? Peacefully? With respect?

    It's also common for police to change their story or have their story contradicted by footage (which frankly just looks like LYING to me) - which, again, if it was NOT a police who took the shot, the prosecution would use that stuff very successfully against the shooter.

    So to my mind, there appears to be problems with the way police are trained, the way they function with impunity, and the fact they are not held accountable for lying or misleading investigations...
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
  2. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Except the guy wasn't running at any cop in any of the videos.


    And in both videos they pumped the dude full of lead. I mean. You see how you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot here (sorry I couldn't stop myself).
     
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  3. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Yeah about that

    Why hold people who swore to serve and protect, and receive arms training to a higher standard than random citizens?


    (what's this civil forfeiture problem you're speaking off btw?)
     
  4. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Civil Forfeiture is the case where police can seize property or assets from people without charging them with any crime. This is "legal" because the Constitution does not protect PROPERTY, only individuals. The idea is that they can seize this property to PREVENT crime (for example, they can seize the accounts of a suspected mob member who is laundering money).

    So you have cases where people get their houses taken from them because their son sold some weed and police often stop people coming out of Vegas for example, and asking them if they have money in the car. If you say yes, they can basically say, "I think you are going to use this to buy drugs" and just take that money. They don't have to charge you with any crime, they can just take it.

    Some departments appear to be using this to fund themselves, others use it to by expresso machines and in one case, a Zamboni. Why a police department needs one of these? Who knows.

    According to the Washington Post, in 2014 police took in around 5 billion dollars this way:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tuff-from-people-than-burglars-did-last-year/

    Granted, some of these seizures are going to be legitimate so it's hard to say, but this amount is more than double that of 2011 and more than 5 times that of 2005.

    Note: YOU CAN fight this and try and get it back, but it's on YOU to prove that your property is innocent, and you basically have to fight the police department's own assigned person on this (there's no trial/judge, etc.) and it'll cost you a bunch of money doing it so most people don't even bother.

    ~

    I believe the UK has a similar law and that the US version is actually modelled after the UK, but it's just not abused the way it is here.
     
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  5. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    What the actual Firk

    what is wrong with America

    This goes against everything Belgian law stands for. I don't even. Seize random Bane Shift on the pretense that it could be used for something illegal? That's just.. wow. Awesome.

    *insert rant*

    /rant
     
  6. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

     
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  7. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    If you guys are trying to convince me to spend my holidays in the U.S. with all those threads ... you're doing it wrong.
     
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  8. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

    Well if you don't come the US for your holidays. At they very least you can enjoy a leisurely time on the toilet.


    Courtesy of @yobanchi
     
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  9. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    Saw a vid on reddit where, here in Cali, police raid a medical marijuana store. They come in and tell the workers to leave. They then proceed to knock out all cameras they find... But miss one. After this you can hear and see them talking about the Mexican store owners and making fun. You then see one cop eat a marijuana baked good, and another eat a candy that we can only assume has thc in it.


    This was probably about a month ago, ill try to find it.

    The cops continue to laugh and talk about the workers and the marijuana. At this point there are three male cops and one female, and one of them is playing darts on the dartboard in the store! They bumm around for a bit longer before another cop comes in the store and says "fires [firemen] are here watch your mouths"

    Seemed relevant to this convo, and I find it almost as infuriating as these unprovoked attakcs
     
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  10. PurpleTop

    PurpleTop I need me some PIE!

    Are you a white, middle aged, upper class, straight, able bodied male with no current regular illegal drug use or criminal history?

    If so, you should be fine. Murka
     
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  11. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    So how do our cops manage? Are our policemen literally half-god superhumans, are yours completely incompetent, spastically flailing heaps of meat, or does your culture perhaps suck really, really hard?

    The US is not a country where the people would be particulary free, politically equal, socially equal, equal in opportunity, particulary safe, probable to be treated justly or to be protected from exploitation. It's just really good at spreading propaganda.
     
  12. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    Your cops manage by having different training that prioritizes dealing with perpetrators with alternatives to a gun. Like you, I would say the training is better as it helps preserve life.

    I also agree that in the US we are not particularly free or equal compared to other first world countries. We're not the worst, but I believe we are in the bottom half. What I find ironic is that you recommend we give up the freedom we have of gun ownership, when that is one of the few freedoms that have been vehemently defended. If past Americans had defended other rights in the same fashion, I believe we wouldn't be in the state we are now.
     
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  13. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    the boyfriend of my aunt on my mothers side is a policeman, she doesn't like it when he takes his service pistol inside the house.

    he once came by on a vissit since he was in the neighborhood dropping off a dead baby to the crime lab. since they needed someone to do that and he volunteered because what else are you going to do when you have extra time and a police motorcycle.

    Once helped ID my uncle on my fathers side.
    When my uncle was pulled over to check his alchohol level, upon being asked if he could prove his identity he pointed to my aunt's boyfriend sitting in the policecar. ( them both having been at a family gathering a few days prior)

    nice guy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
  14. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Could you say why you think you're so poorly on the freedom scale, since America is ironically hailed as the ultimate free country (yeah studies show it's not, but perception and whatnot).

    Also, what freedoms/rights do you feel you (as a people) gave up in the past that you shouldn't have done previously?
     
  15. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Ironically so.

    The country that should pride itself as a mixing pot of different people/races/culture/whatever, ends up being a white male america. Although things might change. Ever so slowly.
     
  16. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    That. Is not. Freedom. That is a cause of fear, tyranny and disenfranchisement. Gun proliferation is opposed to freedom.
     
  17. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    Boozha ... he was agreeing with you.
     
  18. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Well, he wasn't explicitly disagreeing with the "freedom" to own guns. But the rest of his statement was very much in line with my line of thought, yes.
     
  19. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    You really, really, really, really hate America and most Americans. Message received.
     
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  20. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Boozha has locked in the "Hate NA frenzy". Better to let him go for a bit.

    He'll calm down.. eventually.
     

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