Much less than you make it out to be. It would still have class: Wizard, and would thus still have a place in the theme. The removal of the race is intended to open up more doors for it's inclusion in another theme, and is a thematic change beyond the loss of Improve Damage from the Sunblossom. This is completely nonsensical, and i am done talking about this. I have suggested no changes for the Nullbeast, as of yet. It already has Bulwark: Faeries to tie it into the theme, and i doubt it needs anything more. If it does, then reworking the Bound abilities and adding it in would be the appropriate course.
Btw... Wisps are faeries...I always thought every fantasy mmorpg/rts people would at least know about this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o'-the-wisp they MIGHT be faes... they MIGHT be spirits... but they can definitely be classified as faes. In almost most of the fantasy games I'm playing, Wisps or Will o the Wisp is a faerie/spirit-affiliated monster. I don't believe Pox devs wouldn't research about lores before making a champion based on it...
I think they're pretty well established as mischievous spirits of the dead. No keen intelligence or identity left over, ghosts. Sometimes manipulated by other fantastical creatures (i.e the Fae) to torment or guide lost travelers by luring them with balls of light (balls of light believed to be the Wisp's themselves). The Wisp has... Flight. Check. Fascinate. Check. Awestruck. Check Phase Shift. Check Race: Spirit. Check. Flavor Text - "Folklore tells of wisps as vessels. They hold the souls of fallen elves and can carry them into the afterlife." It's a ghost, not a Faerie. P.S. Fae is already plural & your Wikipedia article describes them as Faerie Fire, not Faeries themselves.
how can it be not a faerie but a ghost? Faeries are considered ghosts as well..... (SPIRITS if u will. Just like Djinns) thats why I said it might be classified as either spirits/faerie. Faeries are rendered in modern folktales to be shaped like lil girls with flowers n butterfly wings. http://ghosts.monstrous.com/will-o_-the-wisp.htm floating blue lights, glowing ball or tiny flickers of fire that travel through breezes and air currents sometimes even following their observer or mimicing his movements. Some believe the mysterious to be portents of bad luck or even death. Other explanations are that these are the lights of trooping faeries on their Rades, or that they are the wandering souls of discarnate humans. http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/mba/mba10.htm In Shakespeare's Tempest2 a sailor exclaims: "Your fairy, which, you say, is a harmless fairy, has done little better than played the Jack with us". Dr. Johnson commented that the reference was to "Jack with a lantern". Milton wrote also of the "wandering fire", *Jack: 'Drunken Jack', 'Stingy Jack' from Will-o-the-Wisp Irish folklore. http://tfwalsh.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/will-o-wisp-ghostly-lights/ European folklore sees these lights as either mischievous spirits of the dead, or other supernatural beings or spirits such as fairies, attempting to lead travellers astray. Scandinavian folklore believed that a will-o’-the-wisp marked the location of a treasure deep in ground or water, which could be taken only when the fire was there. In Welsh folklore, the light is a “fairy fire” held in the hand of a púca, or pwca, a small goblin-like fairy that mischievously leads lone travelers off the beaten path at night. As the traveler follows the púca through the marsh or bog, the fire is extinguished, leaving the man lost. In Bengal, the Aleya (or marsh ghost-light) is the name given to an unexplained strange light phenomena occurring over the marshes as observed. http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/willowisp.html Will-o'-the-Wisp is the most common English designation for a family of fairy-beings characterized by their fiery appearance and their tendency to lead nighttime wayfarers astray. The term wisp refers to a twist of straw, used as a torch. Other names for these apparitions include Hobby-Lantern, Jack-o'-Lantern, Jenny-Burnt-Tale, Kitty-Candlestick, Peg-a-Lantern, and many more. http://www.bellaterreno.com/art/scottish/scottishfairies.aspx Malevolent spirits either of the dead or non human intelligence. They were also the mysterious lights that were said to lead travelers from the well-trodden paths into dangerous and treacherous waters. P.S. Wisps' not Wisp's
There're a couple of reasons about this hatred towards Prami/Sel'pai: - Almost everyone here has more experience in Pox, and Prami's lack of willingness to understand counterarguments create an atmosphere where he is pointed to be wrong very quickly, then he proceeds to drag topics for pages long defending his points, often using his personal views as basis for balance suggestions. - In the past, he has used false arguments to try to mock, humiliate or invalidate Pox players of good standing. - He spammed old General Discussion with a series of threads usually veiled as innocent questions: the infamous "Should X be Y?" series is particularly notorious. During certain weeks, everything that was in the top 10 spots of GD were these threads, and it culminated when several members of the community started "Should Prami stop posting?" threads that were taken down as quickly as they were created. You can see how quickly he invaded KF forums with his "Initiative" posts. - After his original account was mass-ignored, he decided to keep trolling/spamming the community with another account (Sel'pai or so). Prami has trolled everyone to the point the community is visibly hostile to him. At least everyone that chose not to ignore him years/months ago.
I've never played fairies (other than 2 oracles), so I can't speak to their overall power level. If they are in need of a buff (no idea whether they area), then it seems like it should build on their current playstyle. From what I've read, it sounds like they rely on champ-based (pacify on oracle, metamorphosis on trickster, stun on nectar, prismatic crystals on enchantress) and spell-based (time slip, reclaim) crowd control. They also have a number of champ based anti-spell abilities (weaken spells on mantis, counterspell mastery on trickster, council spells on chained fae). I assume the goal of his bg is to use the abilities to stall for long enough to let the fairies whittle down champions with lots of little attacks and the defense-bypassing abilities of moonbeams or soften on sunblossoms and for oracles to grow into beasts. Two options would be to add some type of favor-based champion (I looked, maybe I missed it) or to create some type of racial akin to yeti's that culminates in fae champions having adaptive: k'thir forest, either once there are enough fae on the board or once the player cast enough k'thir forest spells. That would avoid the champ being just another adaptive champ to throw into a meta bg, but provide additional long game potential once the spell and champion cc is on cd.
Sprite should have favor, but adaptive as a racial is too much. If you want to expand fae, just add more tricky abilities.. Solo: Hit and Run would be fun, for example.
Alright alright... I concede. I removed it from the OP. Though 7/8ths of what you posted here allude to Wisps' as outright ghosts, or magical entities manifested into being by the Fae, and not Fae themselves. It was a thematic change anyways & would have had negligible impact on play.
I believe if you go and read your nectar fairy changes it says reduce the def under it... If tower is fine then why do you feel the need to comment on it I agreed with the abilities thing so dunno why you put that I believe that my Moonbeams and strike thing has been covered by the rest of the community Yes speed is important and as I have said bridge to nowhere gives you that extra speed... It has relocate self so don't even need to worry about losing it mid game I just feel that you seem to play half of a theme and just throw in 2x of the basic things and expect it to work, its already a complex theme and doesn't need more stuff to variate it. How you can say something like "I don't play anything consistently" and then come on here and preach to players who do play consistently is a ridiculous statement to make. If you don't play things consistently how can you work your bgs to suit you? How can you tweak them to become the best they can be. And just because a rune is simple in effects and design doesn't mean its lazy. The caltharis bloom is good not only for on the spot heal but also a great way to use overgrowth on its summons. I despair at the thought of you wanting to comment on trees as this is another theme I tend to play alot of... Let me guess K'thun is still in need of more nerfs? I already know you don't want greenhouse to stack. What I would like to see, is what you actually have run to test these themes, perhaps then the community can give you hints on how you're playing something and could be utilised better.
You're right, but it's more of a suggested change for all of the Fae. The Nectar Faerie just happened to be in the line of fire since it has DEF on base. The Tower of Amareth works fine mechanically, and balance wise it's fine too; but i think it can work better. Like you said, it's used right now primarily when someone wants to finish off a low Health champion. They place they relic near their target and attack everything else indiscriminately, knowing that the champion will certainly die. I think that's asking for trouble, especially combined with a higher average speed for the Fae. I would rather see the "If the attacking champion is a Wizard or a Faerie" clause target the closest enemy unit to the attacking unit (which would mostly be the targeted unit itself). It would become bonus damage on the target being attacked, unless something else is closer, and i think that's a much healthier mechanic. But the Fae's base speed is nothing special compared to many other themes. I've already explained my rationale extensively, in earlier posts. The map design & the basic attack cost constrain speed variance for champions, to the point where speed is fairly uniform across all factions & themes. I think that this should change, and since current map designs are already points of contention for other reasons, map design seems like the obvious limiting factor to address. That's what I'm trying to address through these posts, balance; though it may not be immediately apparent. Pox Nora has hundreds of runes, and balancing them all independently is an impossible task. So how would you balance a game like Pox Nora? My thought is that you would first have to divide the game, fairly rigidly, into different themes and closely monitor variance from those themes for balance. Make sure that runes are most viable within whatever theme they belong to through theme specific bonuses (i.e. Crown of Petals & Tree Folk's Blessing) & theme reliant abilities (i.e. Surge: Faerie). The first step towards this is to lessen the feeling of homogenization across factions & themes. Make every faction and every theme look, feel, play differently. This way, you can address an entire theme instead of one champion at a time. Addressing runes one by one haphazardly across themes & factions, knowing that as a developer you can't predict all of the potential interactions because viable combinations are endless... This is what how Pox Nora has been looked at for a long time, and it clearly doesn't work. Catharsis bloom is too powerful as it is now. Having the bonus summoned relics come into play unstealthed is not enough counter-play for a rune that offers such powerful healing. There are 3 obvious paths to balance this rune. 1.) is to add a clause preventing a champion from being healed by more than one copy of the relic at once. 2.) is to further increment the healing. 3.) is to have the healing affect both allies & enemies. Since this relic comes into play stealthed and the copies it come into play unstealthed, i feel that a combination of 2 & 3 is appropriate. Add risk/reward to the rune. If the enemy finds the stealthed relic, then they can use it along with you. The copies that come into play would potentially be as much of a detriment as a boon since the enemy would always know where they are. Further increment the healing so there's more opportunity to make plays with the relics. Raw, powerful healing is a terrible thing for the game, but it's a discussion that deserves a separate thread. I suggested changes to Overgrowth & Catharsis Bloom here. No, i don't want to nerf K'thun. His biggest problem is that Wandering is a poorly coded ability. It should necessitate movement if movement is possible. He often gets stuck on parts of maps, and this is a problem for the K'thun, more so than for anything else. I've actually posted on K'thun already. You can see what i proposed here, though some of the post has yet to be updated since the last patch. Take it with a grain of salt. Also note that my suggested changes for K'thun are reliant on suggested changes for 2 spells. Tree Folk's Blessing & Spontaneous Growth. Those suggestions too, are listed in that post.
I love faeries, but there is a lot of personal hate in this thread I can't be bothered to read through so I won't. Honestly I love the sprite now that it has trickster. Ranged stun was already nice, but ranged stun into stealth? Thats just so delicious. Nymph got an ability upgrade but Im still testing that one out for a spot on the team since the manic ability doesnt always seem to trigger right. If only I could craft fan faire, that would be amazing for the fae
I must say, I would definitely respect your opinion more if I thought you were a good player. If you took a fae bg to a decently high rank I would be at least forced to consider whether or not you understood this game, but as of now I have seen no proof as to your skill or knowledge of this game. Not that rank is everything, but at least I would have to think about it.
As far as I can tell, Prami's never run a Fae bg. After looking over his "FS initiatives" thread over in the FS forum, which is replete with massive buffs to a bunch of already-powerful FS mainstay runes... I think I have an idea as to why so many of us are so negative about so many of his "suggestions" - he really is trying to nerf everything in KF beyond recognition.
I think we all know how to solve this problem, prami must start a youtube lets play poxnora series. You are welcome forum
But if he never runs Fae BG, what's with the Initiatives then? Incoherent Babbling "Friendly champions within 3 spaces are Distracted"
You mean the one that i amended with the following note? The note that you obviously didn't read? "This is copy and pasted from the old forums, and has not been updated in a long time..." I don't plan to even touch that post again until i have collected everything but the legendaries for FS. That's one of the biggest problems i have with you Nid, and a few other players like you. You're a victim of the sunk cost fallacy/dilemma. You've played this game for so long, and you've invested so much into it, that it now goes against your common sense to stop. You use anything to justify this, even going so far as to convince yourself that this is a game balanced to an extent that it can be called competitive (it's not). You aren't displaying any sort of skill or understanding of the game by rising in rank. All you are doing is adapting to bad mechanics and a meta that shouldn't exist for the sake of a balanced game. This isn't a contest Nid, and it won't be. If the only people who influence the direction this game will go are people who have adapted to the game to the point where they accept/like it for what it is, then Poxnora is dead and gone. I probably won't even play PvP again until DOG has released a few huge balance patches. I probably won't log in at all unless it's to make another Initiatives post. DOG has had the game for a while now. My goodwill is gone, now I'm waiting for them to actually do something. I can't even recommend this game to a friend, given the stat it's in.
Prami, if the post is old and the data is invalid, and you haven't looked at it or played with or even used the newer runes... then why in the name of all that is holy are you posting it????? I consider it to be the height of irresponsibility for anyone, player, mod, admin, or etc, to arrogate to themselves the role of "arbiter of all that is balanced," to castigate and insult large numbers of people on this board, and to willy-nilly propose completely ill-thought out and demonstrably silly changes to huge portions of the game... when that person admittedly has not used the runes in question, admittedly refuses to play PvP, and has been shown (repeatedly) the incredibly number of silly and basic mistakes and inaccuracies in their work. And now, after all this, you go off on this crazed negative rant about how Desert Owl has "lost your goodwill" because they have not changed everything everywhere to your standards after all of 2 weeks of owning and controlling the game. To YOU sir, I say "good day!"
Prami, I don't know how you twist things in your warped little reality so that people who understand the game are the deluded ones.
