First Turn Champion

What if there were no fonts on any maps and instead you are awarded FONT relics at certain points in the game?

So say by round 3 each player has 1 FONT that they can place within spell presence.

Just spit ballin' crazy ideas.

 

that would be cool but not all factions have relocate relics
I checked FS hasn't got relocate relic

 

I would say no for general use. Sounds like a very interesting game mode though.

 

I'm actually wondering if draw wins are an issue because champion costs and nora generation are scaled in such a way that it's possible to deploy champions with such a movement advantage on turn one.

Or put another way: If people couldn't afford to plop down anything over 6 speed on turn one*, is the current map spacing still an issue? And if it isn't, was it the problem after all?

* and there weren't abilities and other bonuses that makes champions faster than their speed accounts for

 

WARNING: MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT (Please read.)
(Note: It's late at night so I apologize for the poor editing and if any color choices are glaring. I tried to make it as easy a ready as possible. Also, I'm sorry if anything is not explained clearly or if any of my formatting/grammar/spelling is poor. Have a good night Pox!// Changed blue to brown per Ima. )

@Moles
@Sokolov

Currently in Pox Nora the maps are very symmetrical. Because of this players with units who have higher speed, more mobility, or who go first are at a distinct advantage because there isn't really any benefits of going second. Because of this, as most players describe it, the phenomenon of 'draw win' is always a risk. I think there are a few ways this could be addressed:

A) Making maps asymmetrical.
I think one of the glaring issues is that in many miniature games (For example, Heroclix) the player who wins the role to go first selects the map while the second player chooses their starting area. Because the maps do not generally have symmetrical sides/starting areas and because of elevation, terrain, and object differences on the map this creates a clear incentive for both players to want to go first or second.

I'm not sure if map or starting location selection is something that is available with the hardware or able to be built into Pox Nora's current system but it would offer a means for balance if the maps were not made symmetrical.
This would also add a layer of support to themes/strategies dependent or boosted by certain terrain.

As a warning I would state though to make this fair that a look at balancing out terrain on maps to provide a boost but not an automatic win to these themes/strategies would be in order. In addition I think it would be best if the map selection was a random pool for the second player every time rather than selecting from all the available maps because certain theme/strategy battle groups might always choose the same map if not.

Another option is to assign a first and second player starting area on an asymmetrical map if the hardware would not support player choice but would support this. It might not be as effective but it would still create a clear advantage to going second.

B) Different font mechanics.

This alternative is to look at how fonts affect the game and Nora is generated.

Strategic points play a fairly large role in strategy games by their nature ---- even more so in Pox because they allow deployment in these areas which is a huge benefit to the person controlling the font. I think what makes it so hard to come back from or to balance is the fact that it allows you to eventually out resource the other player as well as out position.

While having more Nora generation than your opponent is a viable means to win, and not something I want taken away from Pox, I think it could also be looked at to add this Nora generation more into rune mechanics and take it away from being a bonus to controlling a font. This would allow you to create a specific battle group archetype that specializes in generating more resrouces (functioning similar to a ramp deck in a TCG) rather than the current situation where a player can win the game just because they drew a faster unit and started creating a resource unbalance quicker. Another option would to be to create multiple fonts and have some be deployment zones only and some only add Nora generation. This could be accomplished by having 'Strategic Fonts' and 'Nora Fonts'.

C) Reign in the strength of units with mobility advantages.
While Pox Nora is a strategy game as many have pointed out it draws from many different genre and elements. I think one of the incorrect things is saying that the TCG aspects of the game are what hinder it from being a good strategy game. On the contrary, I think Pox taking it's strengths from these different genres and using their examples would allow it to remain unique and stand out instead of conforming to one or another.

I bring this up because in Pox Nora a unit with a speed or mobility ability isn't just tactically advantageous -- it is also a boost to resources because of the Nora generation mechanics.

In miniature games units with a large amount of mobility generally are not as strong as units who have to take their time to reach a fight. In a similar vein TCG games recognize the issue of allowing cards to have too much power if they generate resources. Because of this in a game such as MTG an elf that generates mana would be weaker because it provides a boost to resources. In a miniatures game such as Heroclix a unit must give up other powers and abilities to have mobility advantages present while it's on the field.

I think if we looked at the power level assigned to units and look at making sure that a unit with mobility has to pay for it by giving up stats/abilities in other areas it would also create more balance.

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I will say though that these are just suggestions and none of them may be a direction that the Greens would like Pox Nora to be heading in. If so I respect that and I just wanted to offer suggestions that I would enjoy as a player.

Also I would like to comment that I think Pox Nora has a rare opportunity by being a digital game that can be edited with already present features of different genre of being able to explore and use these aspects to cement it's unique game play and offer players something they can't get anywhere else.

I think band-aid fixes would only ruin this opportunity that Pox has. In addition while a mulligan might be a nice suggestion for Pox Nora I think it is a supplementary suggestion --- having the ability to try and get certain cards in your opening hand is something that many TCGs have that allow certain decks to properly function. I think in Pox Nora it also provides checks and balances to certain battle groups. I think the issue with having that be the only solution or trying to have the whole rune dock revealed at the start of the game is that it still doesn't fix the issue of high speed and high mobility champions being crucial to the first turn. It just means that everyone has to play with them to be on even footing and that is something I think we're trying to move away from in changes.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Rawrdoctom

 

That blue is abysmal to read...

 

He dondonbow'ed me right to the eye.

 

Thanks for the nice words Moles --- I made sure to put an Owl Signal out for Sok as well.

I had originally just put it at you since you were the one already in the thread --- plus I figured if you liked it enough you'd let Sok know.

 

Its already cost 3 ap for diengage....

 

One thing to keep in mind . Pox isn't chess. There will always be a random element. For example I had 2 games back to back where I didn't get a champ till turn 3. The deck had 16 champs, it's just the way draws went.

Eliminating all the randomness would drastically effect the game, like rune draws for example. I pox type decks with killer combos would rule the day and net listing would become much more common than it typically would be. Randomness does add quite a bit to the game. For example 15 runes are revea led and you need to contest or give up a font. You hope your opponent hasn't drawn his drown, or blink, or VP. It adds a bit of excitement that would be taken away with less randomness.

That being said I do dislike randomness. I see the need for it, but I still dislike it. The problem is when things go my way I don't appreciate it at all. When I draw that vital rune I need last and that loses me a game I rail again the unfairness of it all and shake my fist at all things Pox. Unfortunately that is just the nature of the game to a certain extent, as it should be.

 

Just to make it clear, it's 2 AP because 1 ap is the movement cost.

 

trust me if you increase disengagement to 3 not only champions with 4-5 range wrecked 5 speed champs will be in a greater disadvantage so no.....

 

I didn't say anything because my memory betrays me all the time. All I can remember regarding something like that is the fact that if a champion had an enemy engaged but within its range he could still attack.

 

A general question to Moles and Sokolov. Is this kind of thread useful to you?
Especially the part where we consider how to implement the suggested solutions. Is this helpful in general?
Or is it just a waste of time, since we don't know the specifics of the program code?

 

Preordained is bad for card games in general.