Future of PoxNora Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KTCAOP, Nov 3, 2019.


    KTCAOP I need me some PIE!

    SPiEkY, Paladin, aseryen and 2 others like this.
  2. darkpally5

    darkpally5 I need me some PIE!

    Rejoice lads!
  3. xaznsoulx

    xaznsoulx Supreme Dream Team 夢想 隊

    Long Live Poxnora!
  4. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor


  5. Gnomes

    Gnomes Forum Royalty

    Ill just copy what I wrote in the discord.

    " I like that they said that they would listen to us. Though saying they will and actually doing it are two different things. On the other hand saying you are in the "fundraising" stage is always iffy... Like what happens when they don't get enough money? I would donate after the reset onto Java client or show that they are reliable."

    Im not trying to be harsh, I <3 u guys. Long live pox.
    MrCharles and DemonElf like this.
  6. Intweener

    Intweener I need me some PIE!

    Well Poxnora would have plenty of chances even as a casual mobile game with smaller runedocks I suppose.. , crossplatform it via unity, why not? ^^

    Looking forward to the baby steps taken, be careful not to implode! :eek:
  7. Gnomes

    Gnomes Forum Royalty

    Ahahaha, that art book video is getto as Bane Shift, recorded with phone, and no proper name.

    You do so well on insta, why not just start clean here too. Takes 10 min more, but goes a long way. That is if you will keep us updated with this yt channel.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
    aseryen likes this.
  8. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    Hmm. It's a shame that all the effort put into the Poxnora spinoff clones is basically going to be wasted now that the original is coming back.

    I'm kinda leery of this kickstarter campaign they've got going. Didn't DoG try that once and it got such an embarrassingly low amount of money that they took it down in disgrace? What's to stop that from happening again? Also, I'm assuming that the target audience will be new blood rather than the old vets that are still kicking around. If time has proven anything it's that a Poxnora sustained entirely by old vets is, well, unsustainable. That's why the population slowly trickled down over the years, because they could never convince new players to get invested in the game. I'm curious as to what the marketing strategy will be this time around.

    At the very least, I'm glad that the game is back in the hands of the original owners. Let's just hope they don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
    jeeperz2, aseryen and Gnomes like this.
  9. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    I've been her since Day 1 Octopi. Earn trust first. Release the 30th expansion. Let us buy runes to play. Otherwise, it's a bit of an empty promise.
    Xzablaz, MrCharles and Gnomes like this.
  10. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Thats good but can they even raise enough money to restart poxnora ?
    DOG did that and FAILED miserably
  11. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    I'd also like to know how new Octopi plans to recover from the disaster that was the PlayStation release attempt. Failures like that not only drive new players away, but dissuade them from recommending the game to their friends, and anyone who pays attention to gaming news might also know about how bad that looked for Pox. A lot of people might see this new update as just another attempt by a fledgling gaming company to get their unremarkable product off the ground, just another instance in a long line of failures for a game that was doomed from the start. I'm not trying to sound overly negative here, but it's been a hell of a long time since anything has gone right for Pox, and the last few failures were so major that it might have turned people off this brand name for good. I doubt even past players will want to return to the game because of how much confidence was lost, assuming they even hear about its revival.
    Valkyr likes this.
  12. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    And another thing (I should probably just condense this all into one post huh?): I do hope you'll try and reach out to @Sokolov about this news and potentially get him on board with the project in some capacity. I know he's busy developing other games right now, but he really did all he could to keep this game alive right into its twilight hours. Even if he were to serve in just an advisory role it would mean a lot knowing that the sole dev who stuck with us until the end is acknowledged in some way.

    Oh and that reminds me, what's going to become of the player-created expansion that was set to release right before Pox died? Are there any plans to go ahead with that as expansion 30 upon the game's revival? Would be a nice tribute to all the people who stuck around when things were looking bleak, and it would be a shame to waste all that work. After all, Poxnora's tight-knit community and dev-player interaction has always been one of its strongest points. What better way to commemorate the game's return than by showcasing how close the devs and the players used to be?
    MrCharles, Woffleet, Xirone and 4 others like this.
  13. Sepulcher

    Sepulcher I need me some PIE!

    After over a year and a half of radio silence, I can't help but feel a little annoyed seeing the announcement haphazardly talking about a series of "upcoming games", a board game, a Kickstarter... Not the best look, in my eyes.

    This post comes across to me as ultimately about fundraising for other PoxNora-universe projects - projects that I'm hesitant to support, considering this game and its playerbase were abandoned with no communication until now. We had people on the forums desperately attempting to contact someone - anyone - that worked on the game for months and months, and they were met with no response. I haven't played the game much in recent years, but I was still disturbed just by observing the events that unfolded. But I digress.

    I'm mostly just interested in a reworked "PoxNora 2" (but not titled as such, please LOL) that would retain the spirit of the original but be accessible for modern audiences. I want to see the game succeed, if in a niche capacity, and I'm exhausted by the game's spiral into increased inaccessibility and and decreased functionality over the years. It seems like a losing battle. Last time I logged in, the chat in the game was completely broken. The background music still cuts out when a champion is deployed. The combat log had several bugs in the one match I played and seemed unfit for dependable information. Honestly, the game was borderline unplayable. What I'm trying to say with all this is that I think current Pox had its shot, and it's probably time for a semi-fresh start.

    I'm not saying a new Pox needs to have all-new modern GRAPHIX or anything that would require tons of funding. Maybe just something not made in Java, and something not overloaded with thousands of unique rune interactions. Something simplified, streamlined, with the tactical spirit of the game retained and the user experience made top priority. Pox has top-notch core gameplay, but it's bogged down by so many complications that have arisen over the years and I think the fact that it was outright rejected so many times by wider audiences (Steam/PlayStation) when it got its chance to shine speaks for itself. Time for something fresh.

    I don't know much about Java or game development in general, but how much of a colossal pain in the ass would it be to migrate to say, Unity? It feels like the game being in Java has been limiting its potential for far too long. (EDIT: Just launched the Steam version, says it was made in Unity? Well I'm just confused now. Feel free to ignore this then)

    I'm rambling and conjecturing now, but I hope the best for this game's (franchise's?) future and really want to be able to casually play it again.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    PoxBot, jeeperz2, soulfire69 and 9 others like this.
  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Interesting news!


    Some points:
    • People have been asking me, and no, I am not currently involved
    • Note that fundraising is not the same as Kickstarter, @JazzMan1221, and the Kickstarter during DOG wasn't for Pox, but for a work-for-hire project designed/created by an outside party
    • Yes, @Sepulcher, the new client is Unity. The bugs are less to do with the engine/code and more to do with how much work was involved to port a very old game vs how much time there was to actually do it
    • I didn't realize rolling back was an option, and I assume it would be a non-trivial task, so I am not entirely sure whether it's more efficient to revert or to finish up the new client

    Reset and Re-Release

    In the Discord, there's been discussion of a "reset" of sorts where expansions would be released again, so I wanted to give my thoughts on it. Specifically, it was noted that players would not lose collections, but instead would be restricted to use whatever runes are in the currently "unlocked" states.

    One advantage of such an approach would be that it'd allow for a "second pass" at everything before release - particularly from a functionality/bugs perspective. How often, in development, do you get a chance to take 3-4 months to vet a release and just fix bugs? Basically never.

    Some people mentioned that the runes are balanced to the current meta and there might be balance implications from doing this, I wouldn't be too concerned about it as balance is never a final state anyway. It'll be fun to see what's broken.

    One thing I'd also consider is re-structuring the content from the expansions rather than keep them as they are. Over the years, many expansions have been added with different vision/criteria. There are some large expansions that expanded various themes slightly. There are small expansions that introduced new themes only. And everything in between. Thus, my suggestion would be three-fold:
    • Restructure the expansions to create particular ideas/themes in each expansion, pulling runes from various expansions
    • Consolidate expansions to create somewhat bigger expansions - the smaller expansions often felt too small to have a real impact on the meta and were "solved" quickly
    • Pay particular attention to the draftability of the "new" expansions, as drafts were always enjoyed by the players even if the structure/format of the expansions only barely met the bar for a good draft experience
    The result of this should be that each release is more dramatic and impactful with a more coherent rune pool. Yes, it "wrecks" the narrative/story a bit especially in the post-Maljaran era where the runes were heavily influenced by the ongoing narrative, but I think that's a minor issue at this stage. It would for certain runes which only have value as combo or theme enabling pieces to be put into play in the same expansion rather than be a waste of a slot until the other pieces come online.

    Also, avatars is probably something that should be thought about - they changed the game significantly when introduced and may or may not be compatible with a more restricted runepool - if nothing else, they extend the game length.

    May post more as more thoughts come :D You know love talking about Pox =P
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  15. Ahmedw

    Ahmedw The King of Potatoes

    Sweet news, I wish them the best! I'm just asking to keep my stuff, that I bought... to support the development over the years. Sounds greedy maybe... I mean, investments are risky, you win some, you lose some. But I just hope that whatever path they take, they can take us all with them. So, even if they do a poxnora 2, or a MMORPG, or whatever, it would be awesome if it was all linked to our original accounts so we can keep our goodies. So, let's say that in the case of remaking the whole Poxnora game, they can "just" move the user data to the new game.

    I don't want to come off as arrogant here or a mister know it all, but this game attracts people who likes strategy, collecting stuff, lore, art, and a relaxed gameplay. So, my suggestion is to also invest in collectible sculpts, merchandise, fiction novels, comics, brand out Poxnora and turn it into something more than just a game, it is a unique world after all. I want to see a Poxnora movie someday that rivals Blizzard's Warcraft movies.

    I believe the biggest issue has been the lack of word of mouth... I'm guessing most of us are introverts and didn't even think about telling our friends and family to play the game. Instead we have been throwing money at the developers and thinking that that alone will make the game grow through advertising. But that's not the best kind of advertising... the best kind of advertising is if people told their friends about the game, friends they know will be interested in the game. A general advertisement on the internet is not really going to convince people. Instead it is word of mouth and guiding your friends through the game, that's how games grow. You almost need to be "tech savvy" to understand Poxnora... the whole rune system, the client, etc. I know this sounds silly for most of us, but remember we live in a time now where games are made so that even a child can jump into a game and start playing with just a few clicks. Back in the days, you would have to guide people how to download a mod and install it etc, like the early versions of counter strike. That game grew by word of mouth, people invited their friends to play and helped them set it up. So, not to sound like I am scolding people, but it is our own fault that Poxnora hasn't become huge... there is just so much a small team of developers can do. For example, I never cared about Diablo 2, I knew it existed, but I never cared enough to buy it and play it. Until I tried the game at my cousin's house, I became hooked. Same thing with Tibia, it looked like the dumbest game ever, but then my brother told me to try it out, and I did and I got hooked for years. I tried to get back into it a few years ago, but it was infested with bots, power abusers, and botted characters that the company refused to delete. Whatever, I'm getting off topic now, oops.

    But yeah, word of mouth. Poxnora merch with Poxnora logo, characters, www.poxnora.com link on the back of the shirt or whatever. Plan for the long run, set long term goals, create habits, automate bot posts on social media with quotes by various characters. I've seen YouTubers who have been doing videos for years, even if they only get 100 views or less, they just keep doing it consistently, on schedule, and then went on to become successful many years later. So - and I hope I'm not sounding rude right now - the switching of hands throughout Poxnora's life is what might have contributed to the lack of growth. Now, it is impossible to do all this AND develop the game at the same time, plus the lore, plus the art etc, it's just too much all at once. So... start small. One thing a time. I'm searching for "Poxnora Merchandise" and the search engine is returning 0 results for that term on DuckDuckGo.
    On Google I get two results,
    #1: one for a update made 10/25/2006 at 10:05 AM that says: "A section where users can purchase PoxNora merchandise has been added."
    #2: an old geocities website called intimateapparel? lol?

    Was there a merchandise store in 2006? Well, where is it?

    You have the copyright to amazing artwork, start merchandising it! Check out some print on demand sites, I am personally using pixels.com.
    They will give you your own website when you buy the premium upgrade, once you have your own website, use firefox or chrome to pin every single product onto pinterest (make an official poxnora account on pinterest of course), include the proper metadata for each product... I'm currently doing all this for my own projects and it is painstakingly exhausting work... but my work-philosophy is to do it right the first time, then you don't have to worry about it in the future. The reason you want to pin it on pinterest is so it shows up on google. So, if someone searches for "dragon t-shirt", then there is a chance your merch will show up. Then when that person clicks and sees Poxnora, then they might find that interesting and check the game out! And if not, then they might at least buy the t-shirt and when their friends ask about the t-shirt, then they will tell them about it and that is from a game called poxnora.

    Again, this seemingly "small" project is actually very time consuming... but it needs to exist, it will do three things PASSIVELY:
    #1: Extra income
    #2: Attract Players
    #3: Free advertisement

    This is one of many long term investments that will benefit you immensely once the game grows big, GOD willing!

    There is a blessing in disguise here, you can perfect everything the way you like, such as setting up a system for merch, collective statues, the artbook you're working on, comics, etc, create systems and templates for future stuff, so once you hit it off, it will all be as easy as copy and paste.

    Anyhow, I hope any of this was useful. I wish you the best!
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  16. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    I hope this game is full P2P with DLCs, the reason it failed is because of F2P and balancing issues
  17. attio26

    attio26 Lord of FS

  18. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!


    I think creating a generaic vermintide game skinned with poxnora dwarves(and I know this is your plan -.-) will be terrible but you do you as long as you rerelease the old poxnora java client before going dark again...or finish the unity client i guess, but i'd prefer the java client.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  19. Fesh

    Fesh The King of Potatoes

    As someone who played this game for years under various names, i can say i only play mobile games anymore. Unless there is a version i can play while i sit on the crapper (not with a laptop) I will not be that excited.

    Actually the board game version did get my attention but it needs a goliath fesh force me to buy it.

    So all that to say i am less than excited due to the overall lack of love we players have received over the years
  20. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    I'll be honest, a GOOD poxnora board game is an instant buy from me.

    I doubt you can make a good version of pox in BG format, but if you do i'm there.

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