Pouring myself a glass of wine. (Yes, I don't just drink beer) Hello there my not-so-living friends. Since it was more than hinted that Vamps are going to get some attention in future expansion(s), I'd like to maybe ask what you guys think about it. I've been playing (and losing) with my UD/FW bleed split since revamp, and I've been playing a similar deck when Demonvein first came out and was a monster (and likewise wasn't very happy when he was hit with the ever so inevitable nerf bat). I was always a UD player, but then I also really like the idea of FW/UD split if I could ever get it to work without using Stitched who I despise with a passion. It was my understanding that Sok wanted to push Vampyres more into FF FW direction, to which as I remember many people form FW cheered. I think it's possible to make the theme viable in both FF FW and FW/UD splits in a similar fashion that beasts can be run in either FF or split (and got quite few options there). My idea is that if the community has some more or less solidified vision of what they want the theme to be, or more importantly, play like, the easier it would be to lobby to push the design in the right direction. So, one thing I'd like to start with is putting Rain of Blood on the table. Back when the spell was originally introduced it didn't mention Race: Vampyre champions benefiting from it, at the same time Sokolov was introducing some new Vampyre (Lamia I think it was) that didn't have Siphon nor Bleed on her, which wasn't a tragedy but was a precedence and intention of breaking the theme's design from being just a racial - meaning slapping Siphon on everything, in retrospect a good decision. I brought it to Sok's attention at the time (probably in more rude manner than necessary) and he didn't see any issues with adding Race: Vampyre as a beneficiary of the spell, and here it is now. So what does a shoebox UD spell have to do anything with it? In a nutshell - that it can stop being shoebox and, given Demonvein was turned into a split rune, doesn't have to remain a UD spell either. I think that should this spell remain in UD and at any point in time get out of the shoebox, it can cause issues where split deck Vamps would have an edge over FF (if they didn't already due to splits being splits). With spells being looked at in future updates, it might be a good time to get it changed into a split rune. This brings me to my more general point here, and that is the condition of Bloodied. There are currently many ways in which it can be applied: Bleed, Blood Magic, Bloodtracker, Rain of Blood, Shredding Bracelet. The condition itself, while somewhat useful, isn't really theme enabling but can be capitalized by other abilities, and we do have a few of those: Blood Magic (again), Bloodlust or Bloodseeker. Now, Bloodlust exists on whole two champions - one of which is UD, while Bloodseeker is Korona's exclusive. I'm really nerdy about getting more use of Bloodied, one particular idea I've in mind would be a Vampyre tank with Blood Magic that takes less damage from Bloodied champions (reversed Bloodlust). FW being FW I think there is a lot of room for flavorful mechanics that would keep the theme fleshed out and not be just about Greater Vampirism. This is getting a tad long, so I'll leave it at this and just finish with a question: what do you want?
Some cheap champions. Vampires cant rely on all 70-80+champions. They need a few champions in the 50-60 bracket as well if the theme has to stand a chance.
I want more vamps that are split like Demonvein. I play FF UD bleed and Fw/Ud vamps and bleed and I can't really play properly anymore with my split deck after revamp. My vamps feel so weak now. I really hope they make more split vamps next expansion because I feel we really need a lot more of them with more useful abilities.
Vampires could use some cheap support. I think bleed should stay demons and vampires keep blood magic. I like how vamps can make a fairly large Loss of life safety net around them with blood magic. Skeletons have always had a a good mix of units that can't help but support each other due to their racial. If zombies are supposed to have the best melee, and liches the best range etc I think we could go into the other extremes and left vampires have the best support of the faction. Spirits could have the best utility etc.
Blood fiends are vampyres in the ~55 nora category and they seem pretty good now, post revamp, with a heal (lifesiphon or lifedrinker) and exertion at base. Other than that, you can't get one for less than 70 and most are in the 85-95 range. It seems like Vampyres need some cheap meat to bulk out all their typically expensive vampyre champs, especially as some of them are a bit underwhelming defensively when not in combat., so maybe for current builds suggest fleshblight or wandering zombies, maybe even zombie behemoth just for pure soak. Seems as well that Vampyres also have quite poor range, most of them are melee with only the bloodbinders and seeker of knowledge being ranged and obviously not every one is going to have acess to bloodbinder counts. So for the moment maybe clerics of unrest? decent range and support options (curse, invigorate 2, council spells) for a not too bad cost.
Run Dusk Creepers, they are undead now and have Improve Range. This will give you 7 range Bloodbinder, 6 range Blood Count, and 6 range Lamia (when Shrinking Scion is activated). Vampires are pretty expensive nora wise though.
*Slurps tea* (Yes, I don't drink alcohol... or sip) ^^ My main issue atm is getting bleed on a good range of champions. I'm trying to split it up so my more supporty vamps have bleed and the offensive ones have greater healing. My three gripes atm are: 1. Seeker of Blood's range. He needs 1-3 to get the best benefit from relocating to a blood ball. Tbh I think he might do well going to 1 range and getting a cost reduction. Blood Magic and Blood Knowledge are really for the guy thats right in there anyway. 2. Banshee. She has no vampiric healing at all other than the relocation. 3. Bloodbinder Count. Little underwhelming. Could do with getting bleed added to his main ability and having it not start on cooldown anymore as it no longer needs to. Bit annoyed by his lack of Fury. As for low range, I saw it as a great opportunity to run Execution Order. You can get some pretty nice powerturns in with it that also heal you for a ton. I was sort of thinking they might be OP when G.Vamp is fixed to heal 100% extra instead of 50% extra. I mean, Blood Magic hitting two people heals you for 24 with it active atm. And ofc, Vampyre is an absolute badass now. If I could make any Vampyre ranged it would be the Dark Enchantress. Replace Possession upgrades with Provision, Relic Guardian and Protective and give her 4-5 range. That way she can boost from equipment with some melee defense to complement phase shift/charm/fear, or guard a Blood Crest/Masons', or simply boost damage (probably the most expensive option).
I like wine it's a nice departure from beer or liquor (especially when with a special lady friend). I want to make a vamp bg so bad, but I can't justify it! Seems very under-powered compared to what I run at the moment.
That's what I'm running atm. Archfiend: Bleed / Frightful Blows Blood Fiend: Exertion 3 / Life Siphon Bloodbinder Count: Desecrated Zone 3 / Life Siphon Bloodtracker: Melee Specialist 3 / Life Siphon Elder Bloodbinder: Blood Magic / Life Siphon Seeker of Blood: Bleed / Spell Swallower Soul Collector: Desecrated Zone 2 / Bleed Vampyre: Thirst for Battle / Blood Magic Most Used Units: Bloodtracker Elder Bloodbinder Soul Collector Vampyre Least Used Units: Bloodbinder Count Seeker of Blood Right now it is mostly getting the Elder and the Vampyre out along with a support unit and another damage unit. Usually the second two are a Soul Collector/Archfiend/Bloodtracker/Seeker. Buff the Vampyre up with Thirst while keeping him alive with the support's bleed, attacks, blood magic, etc. The Vampyre usually gets the Shield of Darkness too as on top of the blocked attack it stacks another defense on him. The Bazaars are there for the obvious reason of exert/lsiphon synergy and refreshing elixir basically equalling a Blood Magic. Execution order is for power turns as 9 units are range 1. This works well with both life siphon and bleed and the bazaar (for giving the extra ap for execute on demand). Elsarin Nights is a great spell for a melee heavy BG and makes your inital engagement a lot safer. Some things I am still considering such as DZVoodoo and Sac Dagger. The sac dagger has been useful a few times though and it's really disheartening when you do it ^^
Yeah. Top one should be soul collector. Not seeker ^^ I think the seeker is good for what he does. But the anti-synergy from relocate and 2-3 range makes him a bit unwieldy.
Also. As a side note I like the idea of vampires as an expensive theme. If you got cheap vamp meat we just wouldn't use the expensive stuff.
Imo: Vamps are currently playable only in UD split, cause redcaps are pretty much the only efficient bleed champ and best thematic early deploy followed by seekers. Win condition is mid-late aoe spam with bloodmagic and echoes. Heavy hitters like arbiter/korona and maso-targets like magus/demonvein still do the job, however they are terrible early draws now. Elder is also terrible in early game, 1x include to amp healing on demand. You still need timmy and whisperghast, and also you have to run dusk creepers because of range nerfs.
mmmm by the way, is still Life siphon and greater vampirism bugged.. ? Because I'm seeing that until we fix this sucks.. ..and Bloodbind ability of B. Count is bugged too...¿?
Bloodbind isn't bugged. It's just dumb because it does exactly what it says. Starts on cooldown, uses DMZ instead of anything to do with blood. G.Vamp is bugged. It increases the healing by 50%, not 100%. Though I think 50% might be fine tbh. They could let it stack twice and let a few more units have it. Preferably a unit in UD too.
As a question, what made Soul Collector so much better? Before the revamp, it was considered absolutely terrible, so I'm just interested to know what's improved.
For me it is mostly that he can have both Bleed and Life Siphon, so he is good for application of bleed effects. He works with my Execution Order and has good speed. He now has Dead Eater on top of Soul Collection and Boon of the Dead, so he refunds a ton of his cost just by having even one enemy unit die near him. He is of course, also immune to single target spells and his damage no longer comparatively sucks ^^
yawl forgogt to mention the newest member to the FW vamp family - Demonvein Vampyre - Compaired to Archfiend 1 nora cheaper (base) 7 speed vs 6 Leech on base rabid vs bleed, ally UD and blood magic on 1st upgrade path life siphon, bleed and lifedrinker vs lifedrinker , possess and frightful blows on 2nd upgrade path
