As you may have picked up from the title of this thread I am of the opinion that as presently constituted Skeezick Alliance is a bad ability. I will now touch on why I feel it is so bad. Cost: Based upon the Greens preview that included the Skeezick Blackguard we discovered that Skeezick Alliance is costed at 4 nora. That's an awful lot of nora for +2 damage part of the time. By looking at the Pox Renovator and its upgrades we can assume that the upgrade of +2 dmg is 4 nora by virtue of the fact that from rank 1 to rank 2 is +2 nora and it can be assumed that the first rank of +1 dmg would also be 2 nora. So given this we can see that Skeezick Alliance offers absolutely no discount as the +2 dmg upgrade costs the same as Skeezick Alliance. Opportunity Cost: When Skeezick Alliance was moved to the upgrade path for a number of Skeezick it became even less viable as a racial because it required select the racial over abilities that are often necessary for the champion to function effectively in its role. Also given its cost the ability itself has become something of a sandbagged option given that you are paying a premium for +2 dmg given that it will not be up 100% of the time. A specific example of just how poor Skeezick Alliance is: One the Resilient Skeezick one upgrade path allows to choose between Skeezick Alliance or Loyalty. If one chooses Skeezick Alliance over loyalty that will add 2 nora to the cost of the Resilient Skeezick, but no one in their right mind would ever choose Skeezick Alliance over Loyalty because Skeezick Alliance offers a potential +2 damage for 2 nora more than the +3 dmg +1 def and +5 hp offered 100% of the time by Loyalty assuming a FF bg (which is a rather safe assumption to make given its a Skeezick bg and as of this point there is only 1 Skeezick that is not runnable in FF SL) Base vs Upgrade: By having Skeezick Alliance as an upgrade option for many champs with superior choices in those upgrade paths you are essentially ensuring that Skeezick Alliance does not get picked. When many Skeezick no longer have the Alliance ability selected it makes it more difficult for Alliance to activate, which wouldn't be a problem if were an upgrade option for all Skeezick. The problem is there are also a number of Skeezick who have Alliance base, and given all those who have Alliance on an upgrade path it makes it rather difficult to have enough Skeezick out with the ability to proc it. Given this fact, those Skeezick that have Alliance base are being sandbagged with an ability that is making them 4 nora more expensive than they would otherwise be, an ability that is already suboptimal given its cost and the cost of simply having +2 dmg as an upgrade. Possible Solutions: To my mind there are a few things that could be done to improve Skeezick Alliance and I'm sure there are others who have equally good if not better ideas on how to better the ability. First and foremost I believe that if Skeezick Alliance continues t0 grant +2 dmg, it needs to have the associated nora cost reduced. I would reduce it to either 1 or maybe 2 nora. Thus allowing Skeezick to become slightly more efficient when enough have the ability to proc it. I feel that this should be done independent of anything that tweaks Skeezick Alliance in some way to improve it. So long as it provides +2 dmg when active it needs to be cheaper than it is currently. Change Skeezick Alliance to not require 5 units with Skeezick Alliance on the board to proc the ability, simply 5 Skeezick. This way those who have the ability can still benefit once 5 Skeezick are on the board. Reduce the number of units with Skeezick Alliance required to proc the ability to 3. This will improve the liklihood that it will kick in during a match. Remake Skeezick Alliance in some way. I'm sure there are a number of things that could be suggested on new versions of Skeezick Alliance and I have no doubt that the greens themselves had a few ideas rattling around. One idea that I had at one point was to turn Skeezick Alliance into essentially Encouraged 0.5. The ability encouraged reads as follows, "When a friendly champion successfully attacks, this champion gains +1 DMG for 1 turn." My idea was to make Skeezick Alliance read as "Whenever two successful attacks are made by friendly Skeezick, this champion gains +1 DMG for 1 turn." This would synergize well with quicken and quickening and would allow for more tactical play, choosing what to attack with in what order to ensure sufficient dmg to kill and enemy if fighting on multiple fronts. Something like this would have to be costed at less than half of encouraged given it would be half as effective and it would be specialized to only work with Skeezick. This was just an idea, I'm sure there are other better solutions, but something needs to be because as of now Skeezick Alliance is awful
What would you feel if alliance were removed and skeezicks were given a skeleton type synergy, with surge, warcry, march and etc. to tie them together instead of a racial (of course assuming that every champion is as viable as the next) About the idea of racial encouraged, what do you think of race and area restricted encouraged, (this champions gains +1 damage for every successful attack made by a friendly skeezick within 8 spaces) given to certain skeezicks (the draksar-hating ones mostly, like rioter)? this would be a really good synergy with SL powerturn set.
I wanted to strip Skeez Alliance almost entirely, and create a new set of racials/abilities based on what the Skeez are doing now. There was actually a lot of discussion of the big SL themes/racials in general, believe it or not, there just wasn't enough time to do much with it I guess. Anyhow, what I had in mind for the Skeezick was something to the tune of splitting them into about 3 groups. One of sort of devoted/standard army types, think like Resiskeez or Blaggard. The more disciplined Skeez. One of oddjobsmen, like the beezick or the sniper or the herder or maybe the rioter/netter. Skeez with Bane Shift jobs (jobs that draks clearly passed off to them, rather) Then one of just really *angry* skeez. War skeez. Ripper skeez. Vindictive Skeez. Lotta options. Then you give each section a leader of sorts- general takes the army, totem takes the angryskeez, and i dunno who gets the odd ones. i haven't thought out what i want to see as bonuses etc between them, but it seems interesting to me. thoughts?
If I were to make 3 groups of skeezicks, they would be draksar loyalists (resilient, blackguard, cannoners, bolters), guerrilla / rebellion skeezicks (rioter, general, sniper) and exiled (desert herder, half skeezick, wylder)
i don't really see enough skeezick as being "exiled", but i like the idea. i went through and sorted all of the skeez into their groups when i was talking about this originally, they fit pretty decently into what i'd set up. Half Skeez, Master Trap, Mounted Pod, Negamage, ResiSkeez, Netmaster, Alch, Beezick, Bolter, Blaggard, Baiter, Cannon, Dragonslayer, Drummer, Filcher, General, Grunt, Herder, Machinist, Netter, Rioter, Ripper, Ruffian, Scoundrel, Torch, Sniper, Trapper, Warguard, Warmage, Wylder, Wrecker, Vindictive Totem. Rager, with Totem- Half Skeez, Rioter, Ripper, Ruffian, Scoundrel, Vindictive, Warguard, Oddjob, with... ?- Herder, Machinist, Trapsmith, Trapper, Sniper, Netter, Beezick, Alchemist, Baiter, Filcher, NegaMage Army Core, with General- Grunts, Cannons, Drummers, ResiSkeez, Blaggard, Bolter. I can't remember/decide now where I want the rests of them to go (Mounted Pod/Netmaster/Dragonslayer/Torch/Warmage/Wylder/Wrecker, so far as I'm concerned they could all fit into at least two of the categories fairly easily. Another part of this is that I'm thinking of the ragers as a sort of shock troop, the oddjobs as utility oriented, and the core as your standard units. Following that, Netmaster goes in either O or A, Pod goes in R or O, Slayer goes in R or O, Torch theoretically fits in any of them... Yeah) but yeah, that was my rough idea for the division. dunno how viable it'd be but it seems cool right now
I'd prefer the skeez army to retain their appearance as "Expendable resources" in a new racial. Something along the lines of after deploying 4 skeezicks, each skeezick gains 1 stack of Expendable and an upgrade path called Expected Loss. Expected Loss (upgrade path)- When an ally skeezick dies, the nearest two skeezicks gain 1 stack of Expendable. Skeezick Alliance (on base) - If the Skeezick has 3 Expendable stacks, the next source of damage is negated and 1 stack of Expendable is consumed. This way you can upgrade the skeezicks you think will die and the ones you want to keep alive differently. You'd upgrade "Expected Loss" which gives a stack of Expendable when they die on the, well, expendable ones instead of on something like Skeezick General which you'd want to keep alive in the front while gathering Expendable stacks. Makes things a bit more unique and interesting
What was the thought process behind totem of the fallen being stripped of any reason to be included in a skeez bg? In terms of alliance I'd be fine with it being stripped completely out and all skeez champs who have it base having there cost reduced. You get synergy through surge, instigate, vindictive, march, quicken etc.
That could be interesting, but it would have to depend on how the various groups interacted with one another. I would not be in favor of each group becoming its own little theme like is the case with barbs. There would need to be some way in which each group impacted the other two groups when its deployed or nearby or when there are X out. Something. That doesn't really fit with the lore. Strictly speaking, nothing in the SL army is expendable. Everything in SL is extremely durable and hard to kill due to having dragon hides and regeneration. That's why in the lore SL has the greatest military might, and by a not insubstantial margin, because nothing dies and they keep hatching/birthing/tainting more. Not even the Skeez just get thrown into fights to be fodderized, with the possible exception of the Skeez Grunt, but that's just a bad rather underwhelmingly designed rune so idk how much that should really be considered.
actually hey, herder could take a re-design, get beast synergies moved to upgrades, and have a skeezick setup made so that it's the oddjob header ? but yeah. maybe have the leader types be cross-compatible, or have certain subgrouped runes be crossovers (because there's definitely room for crossovers). i'm not aiming to make skeezick 3 more themes, just to add some flavor in
If that happened I'm sure we'd end up with boost and herder in the same upgrade path thus destroying the single centralizing element in the beast theme in SL.
i was thinking boost and herder on different ones, and that's certainly how i'd present it regardless, sl beasts are going to need a reformatting at some point unless people are content to let them continue revolving around a single ridiculous crutch in herder
Beasts as a theme do indeed need more that simply the herder for long term health. But at the moment I'd much rather see the themes in dire need of help get attention. Once things have settled somewhat I agree that beasts should get some thought and possibly a slight reworking to distribute the weight away from solely on the shoulders of the herder. But I'll save my thoughts on beasts for a different more beast appropriate thread and really go in depth. Also the acid ele is in the rune art for the herder. Therefore the Acid Ele should get race beast added. And acid eater removed from base. Because that's terrible. Like really bad.
iirc there's at least one kanen in the herder art too- to me it was more just showing the variety of creatures that you'd encounter in an SL market on the fringe of proper valdaci civilization but yeah.
the trackstar and crone are both in the rune art, along with the acid ele and the doomball and scythbill iirc so... trackstar and crone and acid ele for beasts 2014!!!
If greens do happen to read this, could you please give totem of the fallen some skeez interactivity back? That was his while reason for existing. Yo help shore up some skeez weaknesses.
yea skezz alliance is worthless now;now skezz is carried by the chances of nastier powerturns and undercosted spells *cough revolt cough*
So, uh, Why does the Vindictive Skeezick not have an option to have Alliance? Also, I think if the Alchemist doesn't get double bombs, he should at least have a choice of elements. I need firebomb for a janky SL fire deck with Akakios and friends!
