A lot of these spells are fine and I'm not a fan of fixing things that don't need it I'd love to elaborate but I'll do that when I'm not stuck to a phone keyboard
All right. First of all, I want to adress to everything that has been said and I consider relevant, so here it goes. I completely agree with Calisk's version of arctic (including the removal of immunity to frozen condition), although Entrepidus' one is incredibly flavorful, but it would require pretty much going over each champion and theme. I admit I am comfortable with ST having lower speed because of arctic, but that's the zealot in me speaking. In the short term there's a chance it could go down to 1 nora(not sure but we have to try), in the long term we would see more 7 speed champion and more relocation abilities. One thing I haven't seen at all in this thread is arctic flight. This ability bothers me to no end, costing 8 nora and giving a risible advantage in mirror matches. That's what makes our flying guys so horrible unless they have a ridiculously broken ability(or synergy of abilities) that makes them seem good and balanced. My vote would be giving them only immunity to chill and frozen(they would be the only champions with it, I know it's stupid considering that I'm suggesting that stuff like Icegolem can be frozen, but IMO it's the best that can be done quickly) so we could make my version of arctic flight(flying + calisk's arctic) 7 nora, because they already are giving us arctic for 1 nora right now(although I'm not sure it's WAI, check description). But I believe the part where we think alike is over. My mindset is a bit more radical with spell changes, although I do like Entrepidus' Ice Storm.
One thing I think you guys are misunderstanding, and I cant emphasyze this enough, is that the council member "DOES NOT BALANCE THE FACTION FOR WHAT HE THINKS HE LIKES OR DISLIKES". From reading your post, Lushiris, it sounds as if you are "implementing" the stuff you like or dont, which is not the case at all. What you guys do is gather feedback, nothing more. For example, how can you like that suggestion on Ice Storm making a unit Eviscerated - what? I dont even. You guys are way, way over your heads with this council thing.
oh I know, I don't honestly expect to change anything via the council I'll do what I've always done and try to push for these things, via the forums or suggestions and responses to the devs posts. as I've said several time I don't really think their is much difference between being on the forums or being in the council. I can't say for usre it's even possible, but this is what i will push for if the community is behind it
tbh that Icestorm u are suggestion Entrepidus would be crap, if not the other spells (all factions) were given the same treatment.
I'm aware of it Warfoot, and that's why I didn't mention council at all. It's just how I feel ST could be in a short term, and it certainly isn't about what I like or dislike. I wouldn't touch arctic, I wouldn't touch yetis or nohkan do, hell dont change my gale. But we are here talking about how could ST improve as a whole, not stuff to say to Gedden or whoever. And I'm pretty sure you put all your opinions down whenever you feel like, just like you did with Ice Storm. But if you believe nobody shouldn't discuss anything because we don't have the power to change it... Well ok, but I'll keep discussing.
No bud, its not that at all. Of course everyone should be discussing everything, thats not my point at all. Its just that you are ahead on the voting, and from the looks of your post it seemed to me as if you were already showing what you would like to "implement". Maybe I got it wrong, and if I did, sorry if I seemed harsh. But that had to be said. One thing to note is that I also think 7SPD is better than having Ready on snow, so if we are being handcapped by it, remove the thing altogether. Every stat in SPD increases threat range by a ton.
Bro I always talked like this when I was unranked, except that people never paid attention when they noticed I didn't have a blue name, but I do remember talking to calisk a couple times, when there was a 1% chance for players to change a needle. I always talk about changes thinking about the current state of the game, specially now because I'm under the belief that they are planning to get Pox to a pseudo-final state, and leave major changes to new stuff. And yes my arctic change suggestion implied the complete removal of ready.
Ok, no worries bro. Its all good. On the Arctic issue, the best route on my opinion is just removing the Ready clause - done. Ice would still grant -1SPD to non Arctic units, and some types of snow would still be impeding to non Arctic.
I totaly agree that all we need is take Ready out of Arctic and keep it across the board, unless its Leoss or whatnot. ST units in general should be immune to chill and freeze, as well as don't get negative effects on ice/snow of any kind, thats all.
I put up two ideas for changing Arctic because I agree that the more complicated change I included would be a lot of work. Removing just Ready is a solid change that should made by itself if simplicity is the goal. Then, after letting it sit for a while, I would be fine with removing Frozen immunity (per calisk), if needed. Arctic needs to not provide a net Speed difference of 2 on Ice. How that happens isn't as important. I'm a lil' disappointed in the way you're handling suggestions you don't agree with. Your comment is almost meaningless to me because I can't use it to adjust my suggestion(s) other than further explaining my reasoning. What, don't you like about it? What ideas do you have? If you're going to disagree with something, please take the time to explain why. "Bad cuz bad" is all I'm getting from this. Same comment, but moving on, calisk specifically called out Gale Force and Ice Storm as problematic auto spells that restrict design space. While fixing Gale seems straightforward, Ice Storm is auto for a number of reasons that make flat number changes less appropriate; it does all the things! It creates Ice (-1 Speed and other synergy), deals Frost damage, applies Chilled (triggers other abilities/spells) and Grounds fliers. Deep Freeze costs 5 Nora less, has +1 area and deals the same amount of Frost damage. . . with nothing else. That is the problem, in my eyes. I changed Chill to Eviscerate because Ice Storm seems like the natural step up from Razor Ice (Rend 1/Eviscerated 3). I lowered Frost damage to add Physical damage to flyers because it felt implied. If one of those ice shards hit a flying monkey, that flying monkey is going to crash into the ground. Given Knockback deals 5 damage per square you spend bumping into something, I'm treating the fall as a single square of Knockdown damage. I lowered the Ice terrain duration even further so that adding it to Deep Freeze was more meaningful (alongside Frozen). Could the numbers use additional tweaks? Certainly! I consider my spell suggestions as a rough draft that needs more than just my opinion to complete. I would, however, appreciate more specific feedback so that I can carry on a discussion with you. Are you sure about that? Here are many of the damage spells in other factions: FS: Font Eruption [45N], Nora Artillery [45N], Poisonous Fumes [35N], Psionic Storm [45N], Psychic Blast [35N], Pygmy Hippo Stampede [55N], Reverberating Blast [55N], Tortun Cannon Barrage [40N] FW: Anathema [50N], Chain Lightning [40N], Dead Zone Voodo [40N], Essence Drain [50N], Goresplosion [40N], Obelus [40N], Soulbane [40N], Steal Life [35N] IS: Bane Blast [40N], Blink [55N], Earthquake [45N], Groble Bombardment [50N], Hammer Strike [40N], Open the Earth [40N], Rock Torrent [40N], Smite Enemy [50N] KF: Brambles [35N], Crowded Forces [50N], Crimlic's Bane [45N], Lash Down [40N], Living Vines [45N], Nature's Wrath [45N], Sabotage [40N], Thorn Collection [50N] SP: Avalanche [45N], Boulder Throw [40N], Crescendo [35N], Electrostaticificationized [50N], Lightning Storm [45N], Shattered Fonts [30N], Stormwrack [40N], Vertical Push [55N] SL: Acid Storm [45N], Blister [45N], Burning Sands [40N], Draconic Pulsar [40N], Drought [35N], Firestorm [60N], Magnetize [40N], Metamagic Backlash [40N], Mine Field [45N], Tornado [40N] UD: Erupt [50N], Fiery Ambush [40N], Fire Blast [45N], Hellfire [40N], Maddening Echoes [35N], Pillars of Flame [40N], Retribution [45N], Sheoul's Fireball [35N], Superiority [45N], Volcanic Burst [40N] I'm seeing a 35-45 or 40-50 range depending on the faction and theme. I fully expect that my suggestions aren't perfectly priced, though. If you have problems with specific ones, please point them out
I'd say "some" or "a couple/few in each faction" is more accurate than "a lot." There are outliers, but I don't think we should be pointing to them as reasons for giving ST spells more damage. It's more likely that those spells (like Fiery Ambush) also need adjusting. That said, many of the spells that deal more than 10 damage and apply a condition only do so under certain conditions or are limited to a single target. To clarify, I'm not opposed to adding more damage to ST spells, but let's make sure we're doing it for the right reason(s). The numbers for anyone interested: FS: Font Eruption [45N] = Global: 12 Magic in fonts Nora Artillery [45N] = Area 3: 5 Magic + 5 Magic per 10 Nora Poisonous Fumes [35N] = Area 2: 6 Poison + 3 Poison per square + Poison 2 Psionic Storm [45N] = Area 2: 6 Psychic + Wandering Psychic Blast [35N] = 1 Target: 6 Psychic + 3 Psychic per Attack: Psychic Pygmy Hippo Stampede [55N] = Summon: three 9 DMG Pygmy Hippos Reverberating Blast [55N] = 2 Targets: 10/5 Sonic + Stunned 2 Tortun Cannon Barrage [40N] = Area 2: 10 Physical FW: Anathema [50N] = Area 3: 12 Magic + Defiled/Decaying 2 Chain Lightning [40N] = Area 2: 15/10/5 Electric Dead Zone Voodo [40N] = 1 Target: 10 Magic + AP loss Essence Drain [50N] = 1 Target: -50% HP Goresplosion [40N] = Area 3: 12 Physical + Scour 3 + Charge loss (must sacrifice a champ) Obelus [40N] = 1 Target: 14 Life Loss per ability activation Soulbane [40N] = 1 Target: 15 Life Loss + Cursed 2 Steal Life [35N] = 1 Target: 15 Life Loss + 15 Heal IS: Bane Blast [40N] = Area 2: 12 Electric + 12 Electric if Paralyzed/Stunned Blink [55N] = N/A Earthquake [45N] = Area 4: 10 Physical + AP loss Groble Bombardment [50N] = Area 2: 12/8 Physical + 25% health Groble Hammer Strike [40N] = 1 Target: 10 Physical + Stunned 2 + AP loss Open the Earth [40N] = Area 2: 8 Fire + Shallow Lava (4 Fire) Rock Torrent [40N] = Area 5: 10 Physical + Unstable Ground Smite Enemy [50N] = 1 Target: 20/10 Magic KF: Brambles [35N] = Area 2: 8 Physical + Ensnared 2 Crowded Forces [50N] = Area 4: 2-14 Magic Grimlic's Bane [45N = 1 Target: 15 Magic (to all identical Champs) Lash Down [40N] = 1 Target: 5 Physical + Rooted/Distracted 4 Living Vines [45N] = Area 2: Ensnared 1 + 1/5 Life Loss per square/ability Nature's Wrath [45N] = Area 3: 10 Magic + -50% DEF Sabotage [40N] = Area 3: 6 Physical + Relic counter Thorn Collection [50N] = Area 3: 10 Physical + Nora gen SP: Avalanche [45N] = Area 3: 10 Physical + Grounded 2 + Knockback 1 Boulder Throw [40N] = 1 Target: 16 Physical + Distracted/Awestruck 2 Crescendo [35N] = 1-3 Targets: 9/12/15 Sonic Electrostaticificationized [50N] = Target/Global: 4 Electric per real Champion (repeat if target destroyed) Lightning Storm [45N] = Area 3: 10/15 Electric + Shocked 2 Shattered Fonts [30N] = Line 5: 12 Physical + AP loss Stormwrack [40N] = 1 Target: 10 Electric + Paralyzed 2 Vertical Push [55N] = 1 Target: 20 Physical SL: Acid Storm [45N] = Area 3: 10 Acid + Scoured 2 Blister [45N] = Global: 8 Physical to non-Dragon/Draksar/Reptile/Skeezick Burning Sands [40N] = Area 3: 12 Physical + Charred 3 if on Sand Draconic Pulsar [40N] = Area 4: 6-14 Fire Drought [35N] = Area 5: 4 Untyped + 8 Magic if (Semi)Aquatic + AP loss Firestorm [60N] = Area 3: 14 Fire + Charred 3 Magnetize [40N] = 1 Target: 5 Physical per destroyed Equipment/Relic (within 3 spaces) Metamagic Backlash [40N] = 12 Acid + 4 Acid per lost Charge + 4 Acid per charge gained (over 6 turns) Mine Field [45N] = Area 4/2: 12 Fire (up to 4 times) Tornado [40N] = Area 2: 12 Physical (20/5 Physical to Relics/Shrines) + Grounded 2 UD: Erupt [50N] = Area 5/2: 8 Fire + Charred 3 (up to 5 times) Fiery Ambush [40N] = Target Font: 12 Fire per square + Charred 2 Fire Blast [45N] = Area 2: 12 Fire + Charred 2 Hellfire [40N] = Area 4: 10/5 Fire + Charred 3 Maddening Echoes [35N] = Area 2: 4-28 Sonic Pillars of Flame [40N] = Area 3 (Outline): 12 Fire per square + Charred 2 Retribution [45N] = 1 Target: 50% sacrificed champ's Nora cost as Magic Sheoul's Fireball [35N] = 1 Target: 14/10/8 Fire and Charred 2 Superiority [45N] = Area 6: 13 Psychic to non-matching Races (of target) Volcanic Burst [40N] = Area 2: 15 Fire + Shallow Lava
Could you elaborate? Calisk brings up a legitimate point regarding the limited selection of viable ST spells. If you don't agree, I'd like to know why. How, for example, is Deep Freeze ever worth running while Ice Storm exists (other than if you already have 2x Ice Storm)?
the main reason deep freeze isn't viable to me is because it requires a certain spell presence otherwise one of my champions is in the aoe also it doesn't leave Ice behind
