I'll agree to disagree, but I haven't been arguing, just asking your reasoning and answering your questions as I was trying to keep an open mind about where you were coming from. As far as Soften, remember it stacks. I had a deck built around that ability and bombs. It took a lot of set up to actually work, but could be fun. Not enough bombs in KF for that to work anymore though.
I use horn of order in fs salaman and it is a top tier equipment, no question. Unexpected AP gen can be awesome.
I liked how you guys, specially @super71 , were bashing me when I said nothing was wrong. Then Karma comes and you guys all bend over. #rekt
But honestly, I did contribute saying nothing was wrong and it had more to do with the number/quality of people playing the faction.
Which still hasn't been demonstrated. I honestly don't think it's any one thing, though, and I don't think it's just the number/quality of the people changing. A lot of changes have been made to the game in a relatively short amount of time. KF had been balanced by high speed/low hp champs with mostly low damage and a bunch of tricks and gimmicks. Speed and range had some nerfs which Sok has done a good job of balancing, abilities have been drastically cut back (and they needed to be), but all of that means that a lot of what KF used to be as a faction (more or less guerilla type warfare - hit and run and draw into traps) has been pretty drastically altered. The changes were a lot better for the game, but they hit the core of KF's playstyle. The champs are still built the same and the tricks are still there, it's just a lot harder to use them as all of what used to define KF has been pared back. It can still be done, just requires changes to how people have played in the past and it's not as easy to do as it once was.
I love how you continually add nothing to this game/community as do most of you elites. Karma has proven little yet as I stated in multiple other threads other than he is just very good. Have i asked him for bg advice, of course I did i'd be stupid not to. Or maybe we just flat out like karma better lol. Arguing with you is like arguing with someone that speaks another language that I don't speak. Also not sure how you keep making it off my ignore list.
Hahaha, except you are right, since I'm from Brasil. LOL. Honestly though, I'm not trying to create an animosity between us two, I'd just like you guys to realise that neither me, BP, Ballballer, Dmr or any other veteran player (or, as you'd call, "elite") are trying to invalidate any of you guys opinion. However, since we have a better perception of the game, we come out as arrogant or rude, which personally isnt the case for me. It's just that after spending 8 years playing the game and talking on the forums, it gets tiresome so the answers are not as complete as you'd expect. Doesnt mean we are wrong, though.
DMr has my full respect for just about anything he says. BP and Ballballer have my respect for anything not having to do with KF. I've seen too much general hate towards KF from them for me to take them seriously. As far as you, when you're not trolling and being negative you generally have a lot of good input. Sadly that's been most of what I've seen from you lately, and while I understand why you do it, I don't understand why you do it so constantly. You provide a lot of good insights when you're in a helpful mood.
I've been playing KF for about a week or so and I have noticed some areas where KF has, objectively, gotten the short end of the stick. It all derives, of course, from their faction bonus which has always been difficult to balance. It's not just that KF is the speed faction in the same way that UD is the melee faction, it is that they are so one-dimensional about it. When KF is at its best it is outmaneouvreing opponents, splitting the battle from one central fight to two or three smaller skirmishes (ideally in your opponent's font). The current toolkit supports this but if you spend a bit of time building decks in KF you will notice that there are very little staple spells. It's not because KF's library is so brilliantly balanced that everything is equally great, it's because there is very little there that wins games. You can win a game with any faction by outplaying your opponent, but it also helps if you have decisive tools. You want to win that one on one battle for the side font on your turn, so that you can control it and go on to beat your opponent. You can do that with a quicken or an essence drain, or you can make your opponent's next turn moot (or force a predictable reaction) with a hammerstrike or a whispers of the mind. With KF you're looking at what? protection, so your opponent can waste 3ap before regrouping? Of course, the ideal is that you are casting your non-decisive spell on your champ in your opponent's font (and the battle is invariably taking place in your opponent's font because of your OP faction bonus) so that you can prolong that sweet resource/positioning advantage. But how often is that ideal taking place these days? There are, by my count, 3 maps in rotation where there are side fonts that matter (new FW, new darkmarsh, ruins of valdac (i think that's the name, the grey one with four fonts and a square in the middle). The KF bonus can put in good work there, but other than that it's an uphill battle. On the rest of the maps KF is forced into a perpetual skirmish, hoping your opponent makes mistakes while they get to decide how it plays out. There are a few exceptions like lexicon in faeries where suddenly one of your ranged guys is hitting a lot harder than expected with longterm upside, and some nice boosts from fan faire (which almost seems like a prerequisite to play KF now even though it's out of print - not because it builds on our faction strength but because it shores up the faction weakness of featuring a boatload of 10 damage 40hp champs), but not much else. There's reverie, which is comparable to battle drum but on an otherwise garbage champ, and if you're forcing yourself into a mediocre theme then garus have got warcry, which is pretty cool I guess. Other than that you're looking at AOE spam. Thorn collection is still incredibly efficient, but it's no longer as decisive. If you want to spam out AOEs you've got to save up your 100+ nora like everybody else. Sure, it's nice to have that extra nora in the bank the turn after you've won, but when KF's most decisive tools can be replicated by any other faction, and when they've got their own tricks on top of that, what is KF left with? So it all comes back to the faction bonus, which has fairly recently been cut down to +1 speed instead of +1 speed and +1ap bank. A side effect of this troublesome bonus is that tortuns, a race with beefy stats that comprise about 10% of our champ library and would nicely slot into a lot of decks since tanky champs are at a major premium in KF, don't get the faction bonus at all. Every other FF has the opportunity to sprinkle in Maljaran champs (again, that's about 10% of their champion library) and have them perform equal to their peers, so you find slipped in SL and spark crone in SP, with the odd magnate or bluefist in IS or ST deck. And it's not equivalent to your leoss only getting +5 hp or your kanen getting a smaller refund. It's nothing. The new bonus is binary. You want to throw that same champ into an FS deck? Go ahead. Why are you worrying about your nora gen, that would be silly. I'm not saying that the faction as a whole is garbage. We all know that as nice as the idea of a costing formula is, it's not going to give you uniform efficiencies and there are going to be decks and themes in KF that stand out. Who knows, maybe tomorrow will see the release of a few game changers that push KF into respectability, but right now there are problems. KF has been designed around being the best at one thing, and a substantial part of that one thing was the flexibility conferrred by saving an extra 2 (and then one) AP/turn because it allowed them to skirmish and to react better than anybody else. They are still built around skirmishing and around reacting (recent titan silliness notwithstanding) but that advantage, in my opinion, is no longer substantial enough to build your decks with. That extra AP storage doesn't directly translate into raw DPS but it provided the extra flexibility that KF could leverage to react, to skirmish, and to maneouvre. That had been a huge part of KF's identity, it is now greatly diminished, and there is no clear set of proactive tools to transition the faction toward another identity.
Very well stated! I appreciate what you said about KF having a lot of tools at its disposal but not a lot of decisive tools. Some of the best spells, which could be conceived as "decisive" (like Fan Faire and Bullseye) are kind of hard to get for newer players. I do agree that many of the maps in rotation aren't well suited for KF's strength (divide and conquer). Unfortunately, some of the maps KF excels on are hated by a lot of people (for example KF plays very well on the large ST map with 6 fonts). Also, the Tortun's ability, Stability, does bug me as well for the reasons you mentioned. Of course, the Tortuns were pretty dang good in FF KF when they got +1 SPD. Still, Stability isn't optimal. Lastly, I'm interested in seeing what happens to Amareth's Lexicon. I think Hunter: X abilities are getting nerfed soon and, if so, that equip might be pretty bad when the change happens. Time will tell, though. I tend to come up with a lot of ideas to "fix" things but maybe not this time. I don't think the faction needs a complete overhaul but there are some things that may warrant some attention at some point.
I would love it if Nature's Wrath caused Illumination. However the spell may need a cost hike for its Nora gen? OR would it?
1/2 DEF for 4 turns is generally better than 0 DEF for the next attack and +2 NORA. I think it is fine as is. If we were to change an AoE for the better my vote would go to Crowded Forces.
Ok that makes sense. I actually forgot Its for 4 turns. I have been playing Vashals lately and they seem to be doing well for now in lower tiers. I'll provide more feedback on them when I play tougher decks opponents.
I'd like too see a little more diversity in champ selection. The more Vashal there are as viable options the better!
True, the diversity is lacking. I hate running as many 2x champs as i do. That said, pretty much all the champions they have are stellar
Alrighty so update on the Vashals. What they do well 1. Stalling/Tanking fonts - Vashals Eremite and Vashal Quillback can hold their own in font contests. They both have Seal of the Vashal to help heal or give you a Nora boost. 2.Good Range Support -Enchanter allows for great mobility with Grant: Teleport and extra damage via grant Grant: Magical Aura, has Seal ability - Vicar is great range support because of Heal Champ 3 and also does great with Dispelling Blows. Also Has Seal of Vashals -Quilquip has a great damage output especially because of Poison DOT. Shreds through defense because of Strike, has Shatter (for pesky eq),and he is a great target for Frostcall Quiver. (Does not have Seal ability). 3. Decent Powerturn ability This crutches most on the Warcry ability from Vashal Cavalier. Because of this IMO their playstyle is a bit Phalanxy but that's ok. What could be improved 1. Alternate damage is scarce in the theme so that's why I run FireSeed and Frostcall. 2. A more diverse selection of Vashal would be nice. I hate running x2 of champs. 3. Seal of the Vashal change from getting removed after being used to getting a high cool down like Take Root.
