Would you rather have that it costs 4 ap to make the opponent lose 8 ap? Jesus, wtf is wrong with you people. Also, your math is wrong.
When the Nohkando champion has Counterstrike, how exactly do you play around that? Let them have the font? Run away and cower? Maybe they can be killed by dropping a couple hundred Nora on Spellspam? Oops, then they deploy a second. Guess I'm SOL. People keep saying it's easy to play around, but I have no idea how. >.<
That depends on the map, the BGs, and the rest of the context. NKD champs often have lower damage output if they want to avoid sacrificing the ability's power. Hence, healing and long-duration effects can put pressure on an NKD champion to expend AP and sacrifice the usefulness of the ability. Essentially, any circumstantial threat that increases the tempo of the fight - either regionally or globally - can modify the dynamics of NKD in the other player's favor.
Mmmm If they are saving 6 ap per turn, they aren't attacking more than once with that champ. So here's some options: 1. Stall until you have enough Bane Shift on board to beat through it. 2. Use precision 3. Use aoe attacks 4. Distract with equip/spell/abillity 5. Stun 6. Paralyze 7. Spellspam 8. Make a tanky dude take the hits, kill with other stuff That's middle font fight, if he rushes with nokando you're ****ed. But that's rarely possible.
In my opinion.. Well, tbh I kinda agree to the advantages that LKD has as opposed to other Warguard/CA units as an early-drop unit. Late-game wise LKD isn't a problem since you have lotsa champs to take her warguard count off. 1) LKD has a high damage given that its a UD champ, and has Deep Wounds. Engaging her in a melee standoff is quite stupid [Acceptable] 2) LKD has Combat Awareness [IMO, Core of the issue] 3) LKD has 7SPD, meaning she's a good first-turn draw (when there are less champs on the board), and can font-gib in smaller maps [Acceptable] Now the problem as I see with LKD/Manslayer, is that as an early-drop, she is able to dictate the whole game. With less to nothing in champ numbers in the <10 turns, you won't be able to finish Warguard counts simply by relying on one champ. Because, in a font-gibbing situation, you'd either: A) lose your nora tempo by deploying a relic B) lose a champ by engaging 1v1 vs a Manslayer In the case of an early-drop Skeezick Warguard, he retains the role of the ability: to tank without relying on HP. Good against superchamps with 20-ish damage. And engaging a Skeezick Warguard isn't that scary, while he does have the potential to take out a champ on its own via 1v1 situation, (5 ticks of damage at melee range would mean 2-3 turns, and Skeezick Warguard has Block AND Dodge). But the disadvantage is that he is easily killable against a full AoE strat BG because the opponent wouldn't waste any damage (since its spread out in the AoE), and would automatically kill Warguard in the process of damaging other champs. (auras and such). This is okay tho. At least the strat that you need to kill Warguard font-gibbing that midfont is AoE him till the tick goes off. In the case of an early-drop LKD, you can't engage her in a 1v1 melee situation because Deep Wounds + her base damage would take only 1-2 turns to kill most of any champs. So that's a no-no on melee 1v1. Then if you wanna stall using mines, traps, or anything, its also useless because the Warguard tick wont go off due to her having Combat Awareness. That leaves us with simply Ranged options to take care of LKD. Situation where LKD is fontgibbing that midfont, what will you do: 1) Melee her? No, because an average damage of 9-12 won't be able to kill her because she is a Warguard champ, you need at least 3-4 turns to kill her. In those times you actually wanted to kill her, you'd be dead. You have to waste additional nora for spells such as Whispers of the Mind, CC her with say Chains of Corruption etc, but those are tempo hits 2) AoE her with crowd-control effects while you run around the font area? It will only a waste of nora since she won't be taking any damage. The UD player will out-deploy you early on. 3) Range her? That's where the argument comes in with Demon Shield. Sure, you can just break it with anti quip spell/relic/equip, but we're talking about early-game <10 turns, there is a high chance that we didn't reveal that hardcounter fast enough. The problem as I see fit, is that LKD needs too much of a hardcounter early-game, which really pursues a draw-win match. She herself hardcounters a lot of thing, while losing efficiency as the game drags on. But as an early-drop, she's just too much to handle. If she doesn't have Combat Awareness, she can mostly be taken out by a lot of stuff like Land Mines, Spells, Auras, helping to take her Warguard ticks. As of now, she's really a draw-win as an early-drop.
I like your arguments, except one point. U cant say an op champ is ok for late game because u can take it out with many champs. With same logic, any op tanky melee unit is ok for late game, because in late game any op champ can be taken out by sheer numbers. Think instead 4 manslayers out late game. Or 8 of them, against your 8 other 70-ish champs. Still feels fair and not OP. 2 rune limit is not there to make it ok that some champs are uber OP.
U say the manslayer is too op for early game, but not too op for late game because u ca take jt out by sheer numbers in late game. So im saying this is a bad argument because basically any champ can be taken out by sheer numbers late game. To illustrate think likemthis imaginary situation: late game u have 8 champs to face 8 manslayers. Is that still ok? I think in this situation, again, manslayer fees op for late game too. So what k mean is j can not say a champ is not op just because u can not have more than 2 of them and if u have just two, then they are easy tk take out late game. Actually your argument inspired me to make a kf ud deck with mirror to test how it is to have 4 manslayers out late game
If they were talking about random champions, you may have a point, but the reason Manslayer is more powerful in the early game is because both Warguard and Deep Wounds are both better in smaller scale skirmishes - which, while not exclusive to the early game, are more frequent during those stages.
After some tests in my new kf/ud bg, i came to the exact same conclusion actually so for late game, manslayer is not so strong.
Yea, plus i suck playing UD. Actually it felt easy, just go go go, but then again win rate was not so good. Its my first times playing ud, i have so many nice ud runes that never even got upgraded because i did not try them even once
