Well, I thought I would start with this, post reworks for the champions that you think ended bad with the revamp, preferably with reasons, also, leave tortuns aside for the time being, unless you think it's a vital unit for fs in general I would prefer to have them addressed as a theme. Note that this is to consider DESIGN issues, if you think that the calculator needs a major change, bring that up somewhere else, let's try to keep the thread as constructive as possible, raising points about some particular abilities is ok though. I'll start with some and then add more: Slick and buzz: mostly good, but it lacks grant: action potion that was THE thing making him meta (add it base), I would also swap immunity:fire with immunity poison. SUMMARY: add grant action potion base, change immunity fire for immunity poison Circadian songmaster: If she's going to enable aquatics with high tide, she needs a cost reduction, less range (2-4) and no arcane dance would be nice. A cheaper water generation ability (trail) would be an option also. SUMMARY: range to 2-4, arcane dance to first path instead of dazzling, trail: water added to path 2 Tide master: it worked as a enabler of all themes champion, and now it's just a boring boghopper beater, I recommend adding high tide in one of the upgrade paths, preferably in the second one, replacing domain: water. SUMMARY: High tide replaces domain water in path 2. Boghopper mentor: Above changes would still make splashing the semi and pure aquatics boghoppers on their theme a bit complicated, because you'll want surge boghopper on the tide masters instead of high tide. I would like (summary): Path 1: Water veil / grant: trail water Path 2: invigorate 2 / boost beast 2 /boost beast 3 Leap 3 to base Marsh lesson changed to "upgrade" aquatic into semi-aquatic (not vital, but it would be nice) rng 1-1 attack physical Firk Diplomat too costly SUMMARY: Marsh awakening removed from base, mindwipe aura ranks become first upgrade path replacing multiattack. Optional, multiattack 1 base. Hydraxor (too costly, but mostly because of calculator's flaw I think) What about this rework? Attack physical Semi aquatic (reducing his stats a bit to compensate) Quest: damage (multi headed) Cleave rampage Path 1 : dive 1,2,3 Path 2: Regen 2, Regen 3, spontaneous regeneration Circadian arcanist First path isn't useful, I would replace with deflect / magic blast / domain water
Tidemaster should have high tide back, I feel like hes not worthy of a spot now he doesnt have it, even if he has to lose something to get HT then so be it.
Jellebrium Mindbender lost deafening aura, vaporize; has mindwipe aura interchangeable with commander:jellebrium. All that goes with the 90+ nora cost. Jellies are thrashed in the ground as hard as myx(well, almost as). He needs deafening aura to upgrades or vaporize to base and that will still make him sub-par, but at least he won't make me rage
Jellebrium Darkweaver: 2nd upgrade path split between the two, or shroud to base Jellebrium Skycaller: chain lightning somewhere (either base, or alternative to damage shield) Agree on Gekaal, Tide Master and Mindbender above Firk Mind Shredder: amplify psychic (being a 'conduit for psychic energy') Turtle Rider needs a damage boost, I mean, 4. Really? EDIT: Also, why does Magnetic Anuran have lumbering? Is it supposed to be stuck to the floor?
With Tide Master losing high tide, there should be another highly mobile water generation champ Songmaster is kind of expensive, I agree on taking out arcane dance, but as a main water generation unit I have to deploy her first, wasting resurgence. Arcanist is kind of slow at 5 speed and her upgrade options don't fit very much in the theme (at least in my opinion). Frenzied Pirahnid looks great with surge aquatic 2, even if it means not having life siphon. Bloodfiend is fine but the cost of of having berserk 3 on it is too high. Ceacaelia isn't the same without starshine. The Thing is my main tank now, as there is no reason to run troll without detection. Even though he is slow and expensive he has trail: slime and high tide, as he can take clamp. So he is usable as a tank and a water generation unit. Chronologist lost short-lived and looks viable, perhaps? (I haven't seen his upgrades)
-I'd like boghopper elite to somehow be able to get riposte again. -I hate that boghopper huntmaster's detection shares a slot with loyalty. I'd rather detection be base and multiattack moved to its upgrade path in its place. -It would be nice for boghopper concealer to get mark back, perhaps in the upgrade path that has cloak? -I feel Marsh Warden should have poison immunity base and poison cloud trap should be an upgrade option instead of vice versa. -Tortun Corsair needs his sword back. Having Attack: Pistol and Pistol Shot is confusing and a baffling choice besides. I'm very uncertain why they made him 1-2 melee when he had an alternate ranged attack already. -Tortalleon Gunbattery losing his close range attacks just plain sucks. He should at least get tremor back somehow. -As mentioned previously, 4 attack on turtle rider is just horrible on something that costs 90 nora base. It makes him trash since he doesn't have anything else really going for him and he seems way overcosted compared to other, better tanks. I know rider has to be taken into account, but it's really too much. Maybe he could get a negative upgrade path instead of having dive? -Quagmirian. For 90+ nora. This is a bit over the top. Maybe his range could be changed and he could lose divert. He shouldn't lose dehydrate or hydrate since they kind of seem like his star abilities (to me at least). -Boo on Salaman Dervish losing the option to get Berserk 3 (It was pretty cool, but yeah, it was pretty strong since he was at 9 speed). -On the positive side, I'm pretty happy with how all the firk turned out! They seem pretty good.
Firk Diplomat gained +20 Nora straightout. ouch. Snaptooth Chilan has Murkwater Frenzy on base and on upgrades.
Snaptooth Ancient: Path 1: Entangling attack /Judgement (oyo97's edition)/ Poison Cloud rank 3 Path 2: Murkwater frenzy/ Wisdom/ Battle Master 3 Poison 1 to base Range 4-5 Damage 9 Attack magical He is the Snaptooth Ancient, a witness and survivor of many battles, the wisest of his fellow snaptooths and yet currently he doesn’t even understand how to cast poison cloud without injuring himself for the first 2 ranks. Better yet the shaman seems to have understood the teachings of range magic damage better than he did because he only costs 80 nora for the exact same role, with escalation to back it up vs the snaptooth ancients 83 price tag if he takes poison cloud 3 in the attempt to be useful. The Snaptooth Ancient has come to realise his many follies and has thought about his long life and considered his studies of the battlefield and come to some conclusions. He shall hence forth never use poison cloud ranks 1 or 2 for thou shalt not be a stupid crocodile who kills himself. He much prefers to support his brothers and slow his enemy’s movements to provide time for them to arrive at the battlefield and help in the slaughter but recognises some of the other swamp clans may require him for his other services. He has realised that in life you sometimes have to take responsibility yourself and dishing out more damage and support by his brothers side has sometimes proven to be the best option, so entering into a frenzy is wise. However some of his former commanders have preferred the use of spells much to his liking, and so his wise mind is often tested and inspired. Alas sometimes dealing damage yourself isn’t always reliable and some of the clans and brothers require further support and amplification of their own talents, and his many trials upon the field have led him to acquire a certain battle mastery he feels may be of aid to them. I acquired this knowledge during an interview with the snaptooth ancient. I then translated his grunts, gurgles, hand gestures, and shakings off his staff into what you see before you. I lost an arm. That is all.
Im so pissed right now expect huge rage threads incoming. For now i want to add something to snaptooth ancient with makes me angry. Whoever decided to random his abilitys like that does not understand how u play snaps AT ALL. he lost JUDGEMENT. WAT DA Firk ??????????????????????????????????????????????????? how can they just make him lose it ? not thats part of the strategy of snaps in generall, i can completly erase all my judgement bgs which i invested alot in. Firk revamp bring old stuff back i say !
yeah you could put judgement on path 1, would stop it from being kitchen sink. (Crawmangler is OP by the way).
speaking of which I dont see why one shouldnt upgrade every champ who has tough 1,2, 3 to the highest possible level. As it only costs like 2 nora for this really good ability.
tough rank 3 costs 6 nora. it costs 3 nora for each rank you take which is why I think people are less enthusiastic about taking it to max as less cost = more efficient currently on a lot of runes, however I feel the crawmangler is an exception due to how beefy he is with 3 def, scale armour, tough and 53 hp without the banner and being 2x2 makes him a bit of a brick wall you cant get past. add to that combo drain and murkwater frenzy and any minor damage you take can in fact be healed back.
Further thought on some boghoppers: concealer: could get mark instead of hidden: water on path 1, or base, losing 1 speed. (65 nora 7 speed is kinda OP) blackhand: gains nokhan do and counterstrike instead of conterattacks, loses merciful? elite: I'd like to see him as a initiative blocker, so what about losing multiattack 2 base to gain riposte (1) and initiative (1 or 2) huntmaster: as above, detection swapped with multiattack mentor: addressed on the OP, rework. Spitter: too costly, range to 4-6 or 5-6 and poison eater replaced with immunity poison. toad: too costly, not sure why, and he's not a poison eater even. reduce speed to 6, add poison eater base, move poison cone to first upgrade path instead of logistic Defiler: this guy isn't helping poison theme, never did, rework the upgrade paths to: 1 { choking aura , poison aura 2, poison aura 3} and 2 { amplify poison , poison charge , sustain : poison eater } Darkmarsh fury: flame nova paths are horrible, I wold change that path to { vengeful, iron will, hostile } Enforcer: change second path (darkmarsh don't leap) to { enrage 3 , bodyguard , protective } Instigator: does too little, I would add declare target base, and move escape to 2 second path of upgrades alongside sneak and stealth, replacing leap ranks Darkmarsh outlaw: looks like a pricing problem more than anything else, but I would make path 1 {multi 1 , multi 2} and path 2 { surge boghopper , flanking } Darkmarsh shadow : make path 1 { hit and run, lay trap poison cloud } darkmarsh snatcher: dive are dead upgrades, I would change path 1 to { reinforcement 1, shadow shift, strike } darkmarsh sorcerer: bad design as ever, I would give counterspell mastery base, and move charged magical bomb to path 1, and complete with nora hex and favor, path 2 would become {spell charged 2, death charged 3, race charged } Finlord's neophyte: swap command heal and neophyte, replace cooperation with nora shield, reduce speed by 1, upgrade leap on base to 3 paladin: looks effective, but heal self would be better as regen IMO, and without bodyguard there is hardly anything paladin-ish to it. Hippo rider: I like it a lot, but I would like crazed charger base. Kartch: glorius leap is an ability for melee champions, and poison doesn't synergizes with destiny, I think that deep wounds wold fit him nicely, as in soloing a single champion, and would synergize with destiny's piercing shot 3. Marsh warden: cost is outrageous and it's hard to focus him, reduce speed by 1, and give him detection base and swap lay trap poison cloud and immunity Swampguard crusher: amphibious -> semi aquatic Spawnpool guardian: it's overpowered, costing issue Tide master: addressed in the OP Turtle rider: make path 1 amphibious, aquatic, semi aquatic, path 2 dive 3, resistance physical 3 and bind and give it defensive turtle based (who's gonna sit in a font forever? this guy is gonna do that)
Elder Murkwurm No stats, no clear role, too costy Suggestion: Remove "Invoke: Hungry Mire". Everything else change it back to pre-revamp state and give him Judgement back. Electric Eel He got "Counter Attack: Ranged" and already had evasive: 3. lol. Remove CA: Ranged.
SALAMANS: Slick and buzz addressed at the OP Ambassador berkchani: Never seen him with a defined role, and I have no good ideas, maybe a tank with bulwark or something. Salaman commando: he went from a enabler/harrasser to a extrange role I couldn't define, I would remove fire immunity base and add air drop (signature ability) and change path 1 to { trickster, stealth, paralyze} and path 2 to { knockout, shrive , paralytic strike } Salaman daredevil: too costly without apparent reason, and lightning skewer will be missed, because right now we are talking about a really squishy melee. It could be added to the jolt path instead of rank 1. Also, change class to tinkerer, immnity fire off base. Salaman dervish: remove fire immunity base, turn the berserker path into { provision , berserker 2, berserker 3 }, give him font ignorance base to represent his lack of discipline and to counter his high speed if needed. Salaman hunter looks nice, I would only remove immunity fire Salaman negamage: I would add dispel base, remove sever summons and make path 1 { spellswallower , sever summons, ignorance } and path 2 { weaken spells, shielded , immunity magical}. I wold change classes to wizard, tinkerer, and he would be ideal candidate for salaman techie racial. Salaman ninja: I would remove immnity from base and change path 2 into { multiattack 2, rapid attacks 3, adaptation } stealth is enough protection from range, alternatively, change blinding roll to flash bomb and change upgrade path 1 to { shadowspawn, knockout, shadow shift } Salaman picket: give him class ranger and replace immunity fire with detection 3, then make path 1 { pilfer , toss , eat traps } Salaman rook: nora thief with passive charge accrual looks OP. Salaman sentry: remove snatch and immunity fire from base and increase sentry to rank 3, add detection 3 base and make path 1 { declare target, swap 3, command dodge } and path 2 { relocate relic, change of plans, confuse attacker } Salaman soldier: looks too costly for what he does, I would remove immunity and foe from base and replace with reflexes 3 and would change path 1 to { relic guardian, strike, poison 3 } and path 2 to {multi 1, multi 2, rapid attack 3 } Salaman trapper: reduce DMG to 8, remove immunity fire and add lay trap, poison cloud instead of lay trap fire rank 1. Fire salaman: could be a useful if he had fire bomb instead of flame nova, and flamestrike path wold become {burn 3, flamestrike 2, set ablaze} reasoning: this way he becomes more interesting and is able to trigger fire volatility on sixul or other faction's champions, thing you don't want to do with flame nova (because inhibited), second path becomes simply more variable.
I sure am glad they reduced the DMG on Turtle Rider. And made it Aquatic. But seriously, I get that they want some tanks to just sort of sit there, and get in the way of the (relatively) strong melee so they can't get to ranged too easily, but for 90-ish Nora Turtle Rider doesn't do nearly a good enough job, particularly in comparison to the Lobster, even with Rider. If you can't reliably or quickly position yourself in the way/font, and/or hold the enemy in place, it's just not going to accomplish anything in the way of either protecting or contesting. That's just the thing that most glaringly showed up in brief and on-going review of changes. There are other issues that come up, but I'm less certain of them as I haven't reviewed all the other factions/spells/equips to know how much of an actual problem they might be. I will say that there is a heck of a lot less in terms of Champion-based water generation, which could prove problematic in the short term for Aquatic and Semi-Aquatic deck-types.
Marsh Warden has an upgrade problem, he has logistic flanking and flanking in his upgrades. no one will take logistics flanking for obvious reasons so that needs to be resolved as well.
