the kf effect

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by polltroy, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. polltroy

    polltroy I need me some PIE!

    We asked SOK to give us some data to show KF is the most OP faction and he said he may do so. I did not see any such data yesterday. But i have some new info about the proposed kf bonus nerf.

    All factions have a faction bonus of about 8 or so nora in a ilities. We looked at that before. KF has 1 speed that cost 7-8 nora, especially the fs and sp ones can easily be converted to nora.

    The new proposed bonus to replace the kf speed has a calculated nora cost of 2. (I itiative 1 has nora cost 5 and its more than twice as good, you get double rounded up +ap, plus max you can get is almost twice.

    To me, unless all kf champs are super super op, or all of spells are super super op (must show in meta dat if its the case), this is really unfair to all kf players. If now by some reason devs wants to kill the kf feeling of high speed fragile tricky units, the reason many of us choose the faction some 5 years ago and spent our whole pox career collecting runrs for, would it not be at least fair if we got aomething new with similar power level like the other factions have? Or like we had before?

    All you ppl who scream kf must be nerfed, kf is op etc, please explain how this change is fair. If indeed a few champs or themse in kf is op, why not then nerf tjose instead or killing the whole faction by giving then a non thematic faction bonus (makes them passive defenders instead of offensive fragile quick tricky champs) that is inferior (2 nora vs 8-10) to all other faction bonuses if counted in nora cost and if looking at the effect on gameplay, especially considering this bonus kicks in when kf needs it the least.

    in regards to their new bonus beeing non thematic (defensive rather than offensive, promotes passive play rather than quick), i made a good example why this is the case for SOK in anither thread.

    Besides this, it seems kf has become the new moga due to alot of kf champs got speed nerfed and cheaper nora cost instead. If u look at the top players kf decks, they all ein by fficiency of kf champs beeing cheap, not because of superior speed. Maybe instead of wakjng up an old mga factoon bonus and giving it to kf, creating a new "MOGA" theme over the elves (that never were numerous nor accepted numerous casaultise swarming the enemy with new waves of breeds of elves in any lore), maybe its time to review the way their champs are developed and give the most effective kf champs uhigher base speed and higher nora cost, so they cant doninate the meta, but are super fun for the new players to run around with?
  2. polltroy

    polltroy I need me some PIE!

    I have a cosnstructive idea (NOT) how u guys can make kf the even MORE passive faction. Because it seems thats what you want? Give kf champs as faction bonus escalation. Its a 12 nora ability, so maybe also to the faction bonus must be added some nora cost increase, like inverted sp bonus, u have to pay additional 2-3% of deployed camps nora cost at end beginning of next turn.

    Another idea, if you want to make them super offensive, but without high speed. Give them a similar bonus like sp, but with delay:

    All champion cost is reduced by 10-15%, but this cost will be deducted from your nora in the beginning of your turn after x turns (x should be more than 10 maybe as high as 20). Then kf will have advantage in early game, but in numbers, no real factikn bonus. All they get they have to pay for later.

    (I like both these ideas. Escalation to all champs makes even me want to play passive and the second option will mean opponents try to fall back when they play against kf, so kf must be super offensive, if they dont get upper hand in first x turns, they get screwed and dont have even nora to cast spells when they have to pay for all the discount they got. This also counters in a way the advantage of ranged unit spam in late game for kf. They can still do it, but would have big nora disadvantage if they wait out the enemy too long. Feels very kf thematic.)
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  3. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

  4. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    What is wrong with you?
    Etherielin, Netherzen and Atherhog like this.
  5. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    Oh so you want to talk about unfair faction bonuses huh? Brb while we FW players revel in your tears. But where was the great vigilante polltroy at for all these years when FW had an irrelevant bonus?
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  6. Flyingfinn

    Flyingfinn I need me some PIE!

  7. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    Look if you want a slow tanky melee faction play SP. Each faction suits a different players play style. If you want fast high damage units, UD is your faction. If you want fast range units KF is your faction. I like the current bonuses because they suit different players play styles. Also if you are getting out font contested by a SP player using the slowest faction in the game, you know you are in trouble.
  8. polltroy

    polltroy I need me some PIE!

    Im just saying going from a thematic 8 nora faction bonus to a non-thematic 2 nora bonus at least should require some more hard proof from devs that kf is op than just saying "its the oppinion of most players", because in this case "most players" means a handfull or twomof those forum trolls who keep posting all the time and who play skme other factions. (Or the kf council who seems to hate kf as it is now)
    Vorian likes this.
  9. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    We also need proof that the KF council actually "hates" KF. Is that hate or balancing... Clarification plz

    Anyways, its only OP because lets say u got 7spd to 8spd due to kf bonus. For ranged unit, this allows u to double tap. If this kills a champ, that one extra AP just puts you into a better nora advantage than a 6nora/turn from FS noragen. Just to compare... Its as simple as that.

    You can't really just judge whether its fair or not from how much Nora an ability (from faction bonus)costs. We dont even know how they get 7 NORA for +1spd from Stat Bonus: Speed.

    E.g, Exertion 1 gives a non static bonus of 1 speed for 8health. Costs 3 nora.

    Now 8HP stat bonus is 7 nora.
    +1SPD stat bonus is 7 nora.

    So if I have to sacrifice 7 nora everytime to get 1spd which is also 7 nora, isn't that a fair tradeoff?

    Why cost Exertion1 as 3 nora? Why not 0 nora, since its a tradeoff of 7Nora ability for another 7Nora ability.

    Hence, its really not accurate to judge faction bonus fairness from the estimated nora cost of the faction bonus
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  10. MovnTarget

    MovnTarget Forum Royalty

  11. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    I agree. Karmavore just used his position on the council to get KF buffed to the point he could become battle master, and then sold his faction out by offering their bonus to be nerfed in order to being KF back in line.
  12. Agirgis1

    Agirgis1 Forum Royalty

    you're both in this thread
  13. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    Dont forget to refer to us as Trollian!
  14. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    All for putting Trollpoy and vorian in the global ignore list (for all players)
    Xuvali and claydude5 like this.
  15. SaintKiwi

    SaintKiwi I need me some PIE!

    how are you any different?
    Pattn199 and Sunutsu like this.
  16. Sirius

    Sirius I need me some PIE!

    Before I clicked, I was trying to guess whether it was a polltroy thread or a Vorian thread. I guessed Vorian because the title seemed to be of someone who was looking at a faction from the outside, as if observing. I was wrong, it was a polltroy thread.
  17. Leadrz

    Leadrz I need me some PIE!

    Warning: to view this thread safely you must turn off your computer
  18. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    can ask you the same question bro
  19. kagebunshn

    kagebunshn I need me some PIE!

    I am going to hope that the devs are smart enough that they will be editing a lot of KFs runes at the same time they meganerf our spd bonus.

    If you look at the meta data they just released, losing 1 spd makes most of the champs actually played in the faction into 5 spd or 6 spd....while other factions have many 6-7 speed champs with bonus AP abilities.

    That data is pretty illustrative actually most of our top 10 champs are support runes. Page, strategist, angel of restoration, nectar fairy. Arrowsinger was the #1 played champ and i probably wouldnt play it with 6 spd.

    Ive always been a devoted kf player. I thought the revamp itself, but if they do it wrong they just flat out fundamentally nerf our entire faction.
    SlickDragon, Sunutsu and Vorian like this.
  20. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    Because 1kiki1 is always constructive and never insults any1. Sure he may point out to some1 they are being a troll, but any1 trolling to be cool deserves that.
    SaintKiwi likes this.

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