What does sl think of the new bonus as it is now ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by super71, May 3, 2017.

  1. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I believe it's a bit strong with the amount of regen they have running around and some fairly tanky champs.

    A 12 damage champ hits guardian of eretat for 7 damage with tough 2, with tough 2 and the bonus from relic guardian it's at 5 total damage.

    I believe sl needs a few champs to get looked at. I'm fine with the bonus, but when I see the bonus + tough and then regen or the bonus + dragon flight and like evasive, void shield, scale armor it bothers me.

    If were going to leave champs like this at least give them a common drawback like vindrax has vulnerable:magical.

    Good example

    a 20 damage ranged champ attacking sonic bolt
    18 with def
    16 with bonus
    14 with dragonflight
    7 with evasive 3.......

    Let that sink in and then note this champ has 11 damage and 55 health, so engaging it in melee is no joke and hitting it from range is laughable not to mention it will most likely teleport next to you ranged units.
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  2. MikeLin

    MikeLin I need me some PIE!

    Can you like stop?
  3. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Why ? Not at any point did I say everything needs nerfed, I simply stated that certain champs need to be looked at. Are the forums being filled up today or something, are their more than 2 people posting right now ?

    Give me a valid reason as to why I should stop posting and maybe i'll think about it. Otherwise I can say the same to you, however your posts are usually pretty trollish/pointless so if anyone should stop good sir it should be you =).
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  4. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    Look Super everyone is discussing the bonus, its not about the individual champs but the fact it works like tough 2. Super I have also added you to Troll King Trollian by making him Troll King Trollian the Super lol.
  5. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    I wasn't around when SL bonus got changed. How come it got changed anyway, did people think it was too bad, too strong, or just needed something else?
    Vorian likes this.
  6. Regulate

    Regulate I need me some PIE!

    SL bonus: champions you control take 2 less damage from basic attacks.

    way better
    Vorian likes this.
  7. Vorian

    Vorian I need me some PIE!

    It got changed back when the SL bonus was offering 1 defence against basic attacks due to it being 10%. Back then it needed a buff now I am not sure if its OP?
  8. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    Sok wants to move away from percentages since they make calculation difficult.

    Regarding this thread, I was initially (vaguely) against the move to flat numbers but I think it has actually worked out ok.

    I don't feel the SL bonus is much different than before overall, though this is perhaps because I am UD - even so, I doubt most people would say they are stronger than some other factions (*cough ST cough*).
    Tweek516 and xaznsoulx like this.
  9. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Pretty much this. Wasn't intended to be a super balance change.

    It does have some balance impacts, specifically, it is buffed vs smaller bits of damage, but nerfed vs higher amounts of damage. But it isn't a big difference most of the time and is now much easier to account for, which is probably practically a nerf in that regard.
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
    super71 likes this.
  10. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    people couldnt work out that -1 damage for every 5 was the formula.

    I definitely notice the difference in the bonus since i play attrition and the unscaling Damage reduction really does make things like my broken bones just unusable until i have an augment creation unit out first.

    However i have no issue with how the bonus works right now the only thing i consider a bit much in SL right now is dragonflight. But given thats basically a racial that's not an easy thing to just change.
  11. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I might tap Dragonflight slightly but that's a different discussion.
  12. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I fully support the move from percentages as it was just a hassle in terms of time constraints per turn.

    Well ud negates the bonus and then some haha, I don't have a problem with the bonus so much as I have a problem with things having tough, regen, and then the bonus.
  13. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    I agree entirely and I like the flat out -2 damage makes things easier. My only complaint with the new sl bonus is how's it's paired with champs with tough, regen, or other similar defensive abilities.

    A champ with 1 defense is already taking -3 damage, when you throw in tough and regen the damage mitigation gets very strong very quickly.

    Will sl start to be nerfed on release similar to how kthir is with speed, I know speed is much more valuable but it's something I'm curious about. Or do you just plan on being a tad more careful with what defensive abilities they receive ?
  14. Braxzee

    Braxzee I need me some PIE!

    I do not like nerfing certain champs due to they have a high synergy with their faction especially if it is in a full faction. Other factions have just as good of protection from ranged. 20 damage ranged champ hits arrow eater oh look no damage and that champ is more powerful. SL protections are just played out in a different way.
  15. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    Compare that to a champ that's not in SL and doesn't have Dragonflight.
    20 damage
    18 with def
    9 with evasive 3.
    Only a reduction in 2 damage. Not game breaking by any means.
  16. Hierokliff

    Hierokliff I need me some PIE!

    Hit my Bastion when ive got a battlemaster,defender,guardian (while standing on stone) near him with that
    20dmg ranged attack.
    20dmg - 11def
    -3 tough
    -35% evasive
    <4 resilient
    = 0 dmg
    no you dont, atleast not more then once or twice .-)
    thats why there are illuminate,soften, aoe ignore defense, yeah well sucks to be Bastion suddenly
    or just a FW player hitting with LoL 4 times and he is gone, or slow him into 0spd and leave him be and hear me QQ.

    rambling a bit, but dont think the problem is SL FF bonus, sure SL are really good right now
    skywings, draksar,skeezick they got atleast 3 themes +meta that are really useful in pvp

    Its actually so good so i for the first time in 10years made a draksar phalanx bg and was chocked over how powerful draksar phalanx is compaired to anything in IS. Now they got all defense abilities as IS do except nexus aura, then regen and fury on (almost) all, so no need for annoying inspire or healing really. just deploy, keep in range for fury when attacking, spread out max for defense

    and if consolidation of abilities are progressing, so all evasive is 50% they cant have that+tough3+ff bonus+regen3, they should probably not have a single unit with higher evasive/reflexes then 2, its to keep their flavor, they get hit lose a tail, regen it back, no big deal.
  17. Vote Kanye 2020

    Vote Kanye 2020 Better-Known Member

    Main problem with SL bonus imo isn't the damage reduction on attacks, it's the fact it works on things like ping and aura's, as do hunter abilities. So a skywing with hunter walker takes damage from pinger it takes 4 damage, or if it's hit by a rank 2 aura it takes 0.

    The combination working in conjunction together on pretty much everything champ related just seems off to me.
    Ballballer likes this.
  18. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    This. The bonus got buffed yes, but not because of its interaction with basic attacks. It got buffed because of its new interaction with everything else
    Woffleet likes this.
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yea, I kind of lumped that in with the "small bits of damage" thing since MOST of those are smaller bits of damage, but some aren't, and it is correct to highlight this aspect of the bonus as being important. My calculations suggested that over the course of most games, the change isn't that big (keeping in mind that previously it also rounding and a minimum value on the reduction, while also reducing more on higher DMG attacks compared to now where it is hard capped at 2/1), but of course certain decks are more greatly impacted than others by the change.


    As for why Hunter and this bonus went to non-attacks... the fact of the matter is, "attacks" has been a false premise for almost the entire life of Pox. It's somewhat hard to explain, but fundamentally, it's never been a design choice why certain things work like attacks and some don't - it's mostly just because of the way things are.

    So we have been tackling it from both ends, changing things to trigger off all damage where it seems ok to do so or just basic attacks, as well as fixing things that CAN be fixed to be attacks, while changing things that aren't activated targeted abilities not to be attacks (because they really can't be given the framework, at least not in a consistent across the board manner).

    It's possible that we'll get to a point where we can revisit things like these and see. I know we got used to attack-based stuff, but I do also like that the way it works now from a certain point of view.


    There's also some other elements at play as well which also impacts this discussion:
    1. The overall reduction in DMG output across the board via various changes (range nerfs, stat stacking nerfs, etc.)
    2. Change of Sandblasted to -3 DMG instead of Inexperienced (which from a raw numbers perspective can be argued to be a nerf, but practically speaking it really wasn't)
    3. Fix of Sandstorm's Sandblasted to 6 turns instead of 3
    In the next patch (SOONtm), both Sandstorm and Sand Spray are being adjusted to have slightly higher DMG but significantly reduced duration on the Sandblasted. I think it's reasonable to say that we should see what happens after that before we consider doing anything else.
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  20. DukeofDunks

    DukeofDunks I need me some PIE!


    Ohmin likes this.

Share This Page