Its got the point where I don't care how many players quit if FW gets a bonus which doesn't encourage attrition. I mean seriously it is frustrating as hell to play a 1-2 hour game where you end up losing because all ur champs are on cooldown. Normally I just surrender vs FW when I know a game is going this way, as I don't want to waste 1-2 hours of my life! Can FW please be given a bonus which discourages attrition because atm FW is cancer! TBH I don't care what their new bonus is as long as it discourages attrition! Sokolov you are creative please come up with something interesting! What about a bonus which increased the range of FW units by 1 FF, and by 1 only for ranged units split...
Maybe I should but I am asking for a new FW bonus, and I hope you arnt 1 of those people who enjoy inflicting attrition on people. Don't you want to play 15-20 min games to get wins too with a brand new better bonus?
I do actually like Attrition as mostly my BGs abuse it, and I play it even out of Pox (kinda Affliction lock on WoW) so yea
You are a sadist then! There is literally no fun for the other player when you win a 1-2 hour game because all their champs are on cooldown. I am not saying the FW bonus is OP in fact its the weakest bonus, I am just saying its antisocial. Look I am asking for FW to get a much better bonus which isn't antisocial. I remember my many 1-2 hour games where I lost because all my champs were on cool down with dread, merely because I wasted 1-2 hours of my life! I don't mind the KF bonus because I normally stomp KF regardless of whether I am playing SP, UD or SL and games against KF players are normally quick.
You could argue that every game where you stomp, either a rush or a late game lock, is anti-social. Every game where the opponent feels like he had no chance could be seen as anti-social. Playing against higher ranked/better players could be seen as anti-social. Some match-ups could be seen as antisocial, if we take your definition of anti-social here. The problem at this point is, that FW has been developed for the entirety of it's existence around a slow paced, build up playstyle that scales into the lategame. Even with some early game shenanigans, everything about FW screams buildup. You can't just change the bonus, unless it either remains a great late-game bonus (in which case you'll still think it's anti-social) or unless you revamp a huge portion of the faction itself to be compatible with the new bonus. I remember that even as early as 2008, people were complaining about the FW bonus. It was either too weak or too good, depending on the meta (necro-moga was insane, other metas were alright). Even then people talked about changing the bonus to something half FW bonus half nora upon champ death or whatever. We're almost 8 years later now and the bonus is still the same. While the KF bonus still hasn't been changed, after much complaining, it seems easier to change without hugely impacting the faction in the way you would with the FW bonus. This because the early game happens before the lategame, so even if you'd change the bonus to be more mid-game focussed, or just a different early game bonus, your champs still retain a certain strenght in the early game (KF champs generally do fairly well in the early game, partly because of the KF bonus, partly because they're generally geared towards the early game). With FW, you're still stuck in that late game direction, so you can't change the bonus to a mid game bonus without severely crippling the faction, though it would maybe allow you to transition into the late game easier, you'd be stuck with a much weaker late game (though possibly stronger than your opponent), but coming from an objectively weaker midgame because of the faction. So you would come into a weaker late game stronger than before, but still weaker than the opponent. Obviously the previous assumes an equal game, more or less, in skill/draws/matchup and whatnot. Changing faction bonuses is really tricky, the reason SP remained the same is because their bonus just became a little more back loaded, instead of a full upfront nora refund. I have no doubt that sokolov and friends have been looking into this, possibly with ideas for the future. I just wanted to come in here, write a wall of text and make a more intelligent post in a thread that seemed full of emotion and lacked a decent start. TLDR Change is hard.
This is a very good post! Anyway if the new FW bonus was +1 max range for all units FF and +1 range for ranged or melee units split, it would be a much stronger bonus and the only nerfs I could think of that FW would need from such a change isWarspirit switching down to 1 max range and getting the appropriate discount, along with dead fairy being switched to 4-5 range while getting the appropriate discount. The SP bonus is fine and whenever the faction is out of line its down to units like Feshcaller Mika, which atm is way OP! I mean even with our bonus SP has become so weak at times even Ballballer has switched factions like he did when he started playing Dragons, and even then he was top 3 and top with Dragons for a bit... The second weakest bonus of course is the IS bonus, but that bonus has cost me an awful lot of games to be considered weak! Atm FW is really weak, and instead of getting buffs they could get a brand new bonus that gives +1 max range, you could call it the reach of the undead. Maybe they get that extra range from the power of Xulos flowing through them...
I think this view of FW is fundamentally wrong and emerges from a conflation of long-game with late-game. That said, your general point about the faction's close relationship with the bonus stands.
I like attrition and even those games that last 1-2 hrs. Games that are won in 5-15 minutes, usually means yaou got map firked or draw firked. The more give an take there is in the game, the better and more enjoying the battle of wills was.
All I am going to say is +1 max range for all FW units would be 1 of the strongest bonuses in the game! The question is would this bonus be too powerful, what do the pros say?
I understand what you're saying, but most people didn't read your theory post about the distinction so lots of them will probably continue to say "late-game" when the clearer term would be "long-game." As hard as it may be, you may have to accept the lack of clear terms for discourse on this forum eventually. Either that, or you can keep fighting the good fight regardless of the fact that it will go on indefinitely. Sort of a Sisyphean dilemma.
Yeah, I'm not going to expect everyone to read that, but on this one point it's super important! The conventional wisdom of "FW wants to build up, so you rush them" is just absolutely wrong for the vast majority of decks. Most decks, especially most themes, actually want to play build up against FW, and rushing is the biggest mistake they can make. If this was just a point of terminology, I'd say it a couple times and leave it, but this is about the fundamental identity of a whole faction, so it kinda matters if people get it right.
most fw players would prefer a bonus that actually gave beneficial stats or that generated nora, like every other faction outside of IS gets. the only reason people are arguing against getting the bonus changed is because these are the only fw players still left and everyone else already quit because the devs have kept the faction trash for nearly all of the last 18 months.(at least)
some of the attrition stuff in fw is pretty bs even tho most of it has already been nerfed to the ground. ghost is still a stupid ability, chopping blocks, etc.
Is +1 max range to all FW units too powerful, or would it be balanced compared to +1 speed, +10hp or +4 damage?
