It is actually quite objective: If you are playing badly and winning due to one rune reliably there is little opinion involved, the facts are on the table. As for your second paragraph, I'd like people to man up enough to stop using domination for their own self respects sake and the devs to change it aswell. I don't see how those are exclusive.
Any other runes you would like on your list that people cant use if they want to keep their selfrespect?
Fist of Bastion could count due to its bugged/shitcoded ability, but I've not watched enough games to make a judgement on that. Currently, Domination is the pinnacle of horrible design on my list, and hardly anything comes close in stupidly situational roflstomp power.
Reposting the idea I suggested in the last thread about Domination in General and the FW forum. It had some support in the FW forum as a possible solution. "Target Champion gains 3 AP. For 3 turns target champion becomes Possessed and gains: Stationary, Liability, Defiled and Font ignorance. It would fit the flavour of the spell: "Once a mind is forced to see that we are the end it becomes much more willing to aid us. The Liability and stationary means it will help FW and hinder the opponent. Stationary prevent cliffdiving. Font ignorance means it wont be an instant win to take over a font from spellrange. Unsure what the cost of it should be. Does 45-50 sounds right? " Thread it was taken from in FW: http://forums.poxnora.desertowlgame...ly-end-up-getting-changed-at-some-point.1780/
Liability would actually apply to the possessors champions once possessed. Other than that a massive improvement.
Just some food for thought... I like cliffs. They are a great terrain feature. You can fly over them, you can teleport past them, you can go around them. They make you think. Domination is not the only way to cliff dive. You can do it yourself if you are not paying attention. Flying+grounded is another. Knockback used to be Bro before the nerf. And there are more. There are also counters to diving, like iron will and keeping your champs side my side and others. Removing cliffs and/or removing cliffdiving is not the answer. The real problem is when the spell works to cliff a champ, it is way to efficient and it's just not fun to lose that way. I like the idea someone had about adding a clause that when a champ is possessed that it cannot cliffdive (this could work for all possession spells and abilities), kinda like the champ is possessed but still has the basic instinct to stay alive. If you want to throw your own champ off a cliff, so be it, but you can't throw your opponents champ off a cliff. To sum it up, keep cliffs and keep cliffdiving, but balance the cost vs effect.
Simply solution to your problem... Stop placing your units within range of a cliff while playing FW. It's common sense. Just like how you shouldn't place your units next to each other when playing ST because your opponent will Gale Force the Bane Shift out of them.
When I left splits had been around for some Well, with 0 ap it should be possible, it hurts to not save that 4, but then your opponent would have to burn a mobi as well. Most times I got to cliff dive someone back in the day it was always because the enemy had saved up AP. Burning a Mobi+domi for only a kill is often not possible for FW as we will have our ealry game crippled so hard that most factions can beat us pretty well afterwards.
Nope; if you are player 2 you will have to cap the mid font next to a chasm. Same on SP, you have to cap fonts that are directly adjacent to chasms and can be reached with 4 AP from almost all font spaces.
Counter domination with iron will, do not save AP, dont be close to a cliff. But still, i agree with it comicliff sux. But it sux like have 5 champion in a aoe 3 range and complain about it.
Then we're talking about one location, if you are facing fw, if he's drawn domi at turn two and if you're second. That seems to be the only unavoidable domi cliff dive. If that was were all the hate for domi came from I'd be surprised. I'd even go so far to say that if the dominated champion couldn't gain AP then there wouldn't be many times a FW player could do this without it being the enemies fault.
Yes, Domi dive is situational. Its not very good on maps without readily available chasms. Those few locations in which it just autowins are what infuriates me, indeed.
If it's so situational and easily avoided, I guess removing that option is not going to make Domination any worse, so it also won't need a cost decrease. Thanks for clearing that up.
Honor is quite subjective and opinionated. It rarely has a place in competitive play, however when the community largely is against it then it kind of does. There are countless people who are looked at as the bad guy for things they do that people find "cheap" and dishonorable in all walks of competition. Its at that point you have to decide to ignore them and continue to excel at any means or to change to gain respect from the community. You may feel like you shouldn't have to and that the win is all that matters. Thats totally up to you and thats fine. However, you have to be prepared to wear your Scarlet Letter. I don't have to like or respect you if i deem you inferior and cowardly. You don't have to care if i see you that way. Thats the way the world works, and thank god it does. And we each have our side to it. If i dont want to do everything it takes to win, then i have no place to complain. If your willing to do cowardly things to win then you have no place to complain when labeled as such. There are plenty of people in anime, manga, history that have frowned upon their opponents. Deriding them and lookin to them as cowards who rely on cheap tricks. This isn't just me making it up. This is an ACTUAL THING. You can say that i have some twisted morality but this is a true pride that is used in warrior archetypes and was true in history. However, the winner often makes the rules/history. If i think that you are trash and your a pathetic coward that can't win without using your crutches and i beat you, then im right. If you win, then im just a salty wannabe that can't adapt to the higher level of competition. We all have different pride and its whether we win or not if we can justify that pride, UNLESS the community as a whole frowns upon your actions. A pro player could use the same 'cheap and dishonorable' strategies and runes that most people are using in the top and win. Then like you said earlier use a 'gimped' deck or one fit to his moral code and pride and perform at the same level. When that is achieved he has effectively shown you how pathetic the people using the cheap stuff are. Most people have this high pride and moral code that keeps them in the low ranks (or maybe just poor) and unfortunately they aren't skilled enough to win with whatever they want so they lose often. They often say " If i used X n Y like you, id win too!". So this pro player has honed his skills to the point where he can win with whatever he wants, and shows every1 he can win with the cheap stuff aswell. So he's kind of like a Hero to the little guys, the lazy, and the broke. I realize that its kind of unclear what my point is, so let me try to be more concise. The trolls defending this spell or whatever 'cheap' dishonorable' tactic have 3 responses that are so trollworthy and look to stifle progressive and objective balance. A) You're just mad because you lost to it. B) But you beat it though, so how is it OP? Its balanced you've won against it (x) times. C) You use it too! Such a hypocrite. If its so OP and you dont like it, then why are you using it? If player X is better than player Y but X refuses to use things out of pride and player Y is justified and only finds pride by obtaining victory and thus player X loses to player Y 8/10 times. There's only 2 things player X can do to earn more victories. 1) Forfeit his pride and use the same stuff he frowned upon to beat player Y 8/10 times and prove he was always better. 2) Practice, Practice, Train gruelingly, Work hard, watch and learn, hone his skills. Become such a good Pox Battlemaster that he can win regardless with whatever his pride see's fit to achieve victory. Ascend above the medicore players crutching on 'cheap' runes and combo's and outplay them on a Pro Top50 level. As you see, either route he takes, the trolls still will defend their crutches with a 'sound' argument. It doesn't surprise me that we think this way however. These games are meant to mimic warfare and despite what the norm is now and how people may feel about it. War overall is pretty cowardly. For one their is alot of underhanded tactics used but im more talking about the weaponry. I despise guns. In my opinion guns were made for people who can't fight. Martial arts, Weightlifting, wrestling, boxing, swordfighting, tonfas, etc.... There use to be pride and skill. Then guns came along...lol its so sad its amusing. The way of the world is cowardly, so it doesnt surprise me that we justify things such as this.
Nice post except for the last paragraph - guns allowed everyone to be mighty and dethroned the tyrants able to oppress the weak by being the only well-armed people around, cutting through dozens with sword and armor. But thats just some historical nutpicking
What makes it good, is the fact that time and again people leave their champs at the wrong place, that most times it should no be possible does not make impossible. Domi is used because the player expect the opponent to screw up with his positioning.
two things. 1. I agree on most of what you've said. I have just gotten to a place where I do not hold a grudge against people using stuff I feel is to strong/OP. For me personally I see it as a challenge to overcome and find it amusing when some people I play go all overboard when they feel I use somethign cheap. Also, what people view as cheap seem to change to whatever makes you lose, the amount of stuff I've been yelled at for using is silly, and sometimes makes certain words banned from the forums. (Zombies anyone) This to me tells me that the average Joe have often a bad idea about what is actually out of line, and just goes to the forums or the chat and whines and yells because he can't understand why he lost. TL;DR Most of the people that whine does not know why they lost, but they need something to blame, which is why I can't seem to take whiners seriously. 2. The only things guns have done is make war easier, it has nothing to do with less pride or skill. Thinking that is a childish thought that almost makes me angry. How is weapons any better than a gun, while I hold martial arts and a fit body and soul to be something honorable, war never was, and learning to fight so that you can kill people better in war is not something honorable in reality. And if you think guns were where it started you are sadly mistaken. Longbows did it before that, and heavy armour and heavy cavarly, and even slings. People die in war, and guns, swords or a fist in the throat doens't change that. Martial arts came because the unarmed people needed to defend themselves against the people with power, it has nothing to do with honor and war. As those words rarly should be used together.
