Nothing? I was just stating how things are without detection. Experiences from back when there was no marsh warden etc.
Does not follow. Like, this doesn't even approach making sense. It doesn't matter how many champions have stealth, if the ones that do are runnable you'll need to include counters.
Like in any match you can run into any sort of build. Stealth is just one of the mechanics that one needs to consider when building a BG. Players will always need to consider the options because it is impossible to include a counter for everything in the game in one BG. What I was getting at with down playing stealth is that hopefully detection will be more of a choice than a requirement.
tldr -- balance by counter is undesirable and has collateral damage. (I think it's fair to repeat this on threads where it's relevant.) The main issue I've had with stealth is stealthed champions can steal/contest fonts and can "postman" shrines (for example, with hatchling season or fire volatility). Having to answer this threat is a significant advantage.
While the rotten fish god certainly does function as detection as far as champs are concerned it is of limited use against stealthed relics and traps which are rather prevalent atm. That is not to say that skeez can't function in the current meta, because they indeed can, it simply means that there are a number of matchups in which skeez find themselves in a very disadvantageous situations that could be dealt with if there were detection in skeez. P.S. skeez do have detection in the skeez trapmaster, but that guy is so very bad that you'd often be better off having not deployed him and just dealing with the traps add stealthed relics in the more cumbersome run into then to find them way.
I understand it could be not a priority, but i think the whole stealth mechanism should be revamped... Stealth as it is now is not fun to play against, and like people are saying here, is a "find detection or die" thing that has nothing to do with strategy. I would suggest something like all champions having a "base" detection (2 squares? 1?), then changing the way some ability works, like assassinate, shadowstrike etc... but i understand it would be a lot of work.
It is true that we have to consider the counter for stealth and equip in every BG we create. I know that some of you are exceptions but most of the time this is true. Sometimes these options are not available in the theme we are using. I personally have felt this very situation many times. You have to go out of the synergy to include such runes (be it champ, spell or relic) in your BG. I like the idea of Squama to have default 1 squre detection to every champ. Not sure how much feasible this approach is. Another approach I could think of is to have a default options available in the game client for some specific counters effects. Something like.... Buttons on the game client to trigger certain effects like 'Shatter/Disarm', 'Unobstructed View', ect. Each effect will cost some nora. These effects are available to all the players in the game. Instead of cool-down, you can have some restriction to use each effect once or twice in the entire match. This can solve this problem.
- Let's be realistic...there is a fine line between needing to pack too many counters or die...and "QQ I don't want to include non-meta stuff in my super efficient meta sexy deck"
I actually wish that detection was less spread around and that different faction / themes had thematic methods of dealing with certain situations. Reveal used to be a 2AP? ability that revealed all stealthed units within 6 spaces. The animation was a hawk flying high overhead. was cool for beast decks. Bloodtracker is awesome for vampires. Illumination etc etc. Instead of more detection options there should be more options that detect.
Stealth is an all or none ability. Either you are completely untouchable by your opponent or you are not. Assassinate exasperates the problem. I don't think reducing the number of stealth and detect champs will do anything. It will just make the problem smaller, but the problem will have the same contribution to a given scenario. Either you find the stealthed unit or its going to be able to contribute to the game at a rate greater than should be allowed by its cost. If you do manage to detect the unit then it will contribute slightly below it's cost, if you are not factoring in the control the stealther demonstrated over his opponent by forcing deploys. This is not a real time or skill shot game. Mostly stealth is used to give you a minor positioning bonus, not complete impunity outside of a counter. One option would be to get rid of things like shadow strike and make stealth an activated ability and give it a duration of 3 turns. Shadow strike would change to something like: When this unit attacks an opposing champion with a basic attack it gains the stealth ability for the rest of that turn. Stealth: 2 AP, for three turns this unit becomes stealthed. All the stealth abilities give the ability for one turn.
Counters isnt allways necesary. Good play is far more important. Back before UD got a spider with attack: Magical Badgerale would often play against my Spirit/Stealth bg. Having neither detection nor magical attack in the BG he was very hadicapped, yet he managed to win over me in about 50-60% of the matches. He did so by playing better than me and using his BG to its maximum effect. Stealth for 3 turns only at the cost of 2 ap would be to bad imo.
