Cactuar Crate - Path of De'lim Edition

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sokolov, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    [​IMG]
    Courtesy of @Hiyashi

    SHORT-TERM STUFF
    This section is for items that are under consideration.

    Propagate: X - Making these work consistently
    Bile Explosion - Ignore DEF


    LONG-TERM STUFF
    This section is for items that are somewhat longer term.

    Hero and Split Hero - Merge Split Heroes into normal Heroes, set limit to 2 heroes per BG plus Mythical, FF heroes in Splits? Splits in FF?
    Summons - No longer able to deploy relics
    Summons - No longer able to have upgrade abilities
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
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  2. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    Is Aurora Inspector supposed to have RNG 1? The artwork and the sprite prominently display a bow.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    Is the name of the expansion Path to De'lim or Path of De'lim? The artwork on the homepage says "to" whereas other places it mentions "of."
     
  4. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Ok, constructive criticism:

    I think the introduction of new abilities every expansion/mini release is slowly pushing people away from this game, new players and old vets alike.
    Don't get me wrong, for the whole 25 people still playing actively, introducing new abilities is not a problem at all because they are so familiar with the other ones that were released recently.
    However, for a new player or a person like me, its just impossible to keep up. A lot of the runes from this expansion have some kind of unique ability tacked on them, and while I do appreciate Soks innovative and creative side, I think a more "cleaner" approach on the runes would be the way to go.
    So, for example, new/original abilities could be restricted to named runes/legendary/heroes or something.

    I am an experienced player, and yet the amount of new abilities being released just made me not want to check the runes, at all. I was "disencouraged" for what I felt was too much for a guy that was just checking things out.

    Just my 2 cents, overall good expansion though, good directions being taken towards the game.
     
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  5. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    I like detonate relic.

    All the rest of the new abilities seem only stat boost to me. i should re-read with more time tho.
    Everyone got new equips and UD got a spell, thats racist.

    Impressed by the Arts., may i ask for Wallpapers of the new loading screens?
     
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  6. Rokkushun

    Rokkushun Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Aurora Inspector seems like pretty much just the best rune ever.
    Mobility, pseudo-tankiness, Support, Debuff, AoE damage, Decent base damage, Wizard/warrior..

    Verdict of Almara seems like it's going to be crazy strong.

    Just my two cents.
     
  7. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    good job Owls!
     
    Sokolov likes this.
  8. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I do actually agree with this, you can still make interesting champs with old abilities.
     
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  9. IMAGIRL

    IMAGIRL Forum Royalty

  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I agree in principle, but I can't say I agree with the assessment that "A lot of the runes from this expansion have some kind of unique ability tacked on them."

    This isn't the case at all. Most of the new abilities are actually quite simple in nature and in many cases apply old abilities in slightly new ways, and do so in a series (see Gift, Empowered and Provision), and are often applied to numerous champs where appropriate.

    Others, like Arcblade and Tomb Drop, are identical to an existing ability with a cosmetic change (in this case, damage type) or extend an existing ability series (Sundered Exploit and Portal Dancer). The real unique stuff was created for themes like Ferren Focus and the Salaman racials, which, again, aren't exactly a unique tack on.

    In general, it is actually true that most "new uniques" are created for EXO/LEG - not only is this good design practice, but it also makes sense for us from a development point of view.

    But yes, I do agree in principle that there are still interesting champs to make old abilities, but I don't think you can realistically do a full expansion without new abilities (and restricting them to just the LEGs basically as suggested) and still get the type of theme development players want, and you'd also end up with a lot of overlap I think and somewhat generic champions.

    All in all, this is actually a fairly lean expansion when it comes to new stuff.

    That said, I am going to go thru this expansion's runes and see how they could have been designed without new abilities and see what that'd look like. Perhaps other people want to join in on the exercise :D

    Also, it'd definitely be an interesting challenge to see if I can keep new abilities down to say.. 8 for an expansion (so basically 1 new ability per faction, probably for the EXO).
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
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  11. RedScarlet

    RedScarlet I need me some PIE!

    Its true for you and the majority of the people here in the forums. But its better to be safe than sorry. We do not really know whether or not these assumptions of 'New Keywords = Scare New Players' are a wide-spread ideology in new players, or just a biased assumption. It would be hard to measure how 'confusing' or 'scary' these numerous new keywords are for new players. Unless ofc you want to spend time with surveys and stuff, which I think would be a waste of time.

    I think you can consolidate 'similar' keywords such as Dragonbark and Tombdrop into a single name, something like "Relic-born". Similar to how you deal with Provision and Empowered.

    Relic-born: Dragonbark
    Relic-born: Tomb

    With each ability explanation different to the others depending on the relic's stats, duration of being a relic etc2.

    Just to make it less 'scary' to new players, having a 'Non-Unique' name such as Relic-born would be a boon to newer players who have to familiarize themselves with the many keywords/abilities that are currently in circulation. New players would disregard the 'Dragonbark' and 'Tomb', and would focus on the primary function that is Relic-born = being deployed as a relic first before it turns into a champion.

    This can be said to be the same as "Bombs" = fire bomb, acid bomb, etc2. With several abilities being different than the other = Lightning Storm (it would be easier for new players to digest it as Lightning Bomb).

    TLDR:
    I think dumbingdown the game is an option that should be considered if newer expansions proves inefficient to attract new players.

    At least changing keywords/abilities only reduces the flavor of the game, and do not alter the gameplay whatsoever.
     
  12. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    blinking, flashing "global chat" is distracting while in-game.
     
  13. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    If the changes to Seal of the Vasahl broke Poisonquill Trap it is then highly likely that Woodland Portal was also broken.
     
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  14. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It is true that a lot of players talk about "new players" and while they do make sense, it is certainly rarely an actual proven idea. That's not to say it can't be true, but it is difficult to verify. My experience has been that the complexity of abilities and the amount of new abilities in expansions don't matter so much as the fact that there are already so many runes. When you are new, even 30 champs each with combinations of 10 or 20 existing abilities and various stats can already be overwhelming. Even keeping track of rune names would be the same way.

    There is also a lot of focus on abilities when it comes to these sort of discussions, but it's interesting how players rarely mention the fact that each spell, relic and equipment are generally basically a unique effect on a unique rune (so in terms of new things to learn is a higher ratio of new stuff per rune than any other rune type).

    I think this is a good point and is one of those things in which Pox has definitely complexity-creeped. By this I mean that Pox's ability structure is not really a keyword structure. Every ability is technically its own thing in most cases. While there are some "classes" or "abstracts" (for those who do not do programming, they are basically the equivalent of programming keywords) such as Surge, the reality is that Pox has a lot of similar things that are independent.

    In the case of Tombdrop, it actually follows the Sporedrop convention, tho the Dragonbark Protector uses a unique name for that one. In this case, I also feel like that was not a good design as the nature of X-Drop abilities just doesn't seem to jive well with that kind of a kit/build, and in the context of what we are talking about, it'd be nice if X-Drop champions were generally similar in concept (like the Sporegill and Tomb Sentinel are). I do like the name Relic-Born tho :D

    This also reminded me that before I started working on Pox, I used to joke that I wanted to rename stuff to things like:
    • AE Damage: Frost
    • AE Damage: Fire
     
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  15. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    Yep, I agree. I was going to edit my post with a qualifier to something of that effect but I got distracted.

    That said, I wouldn't have minded a few champions that were made purely with old abilities.
     
  16. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It is generally how I approach C and UCs, tho with some exceptions. And if there are abilities series being introduced or expanded anyway, I have no qualms spreading them around a bit, particularly mechanics based stuff like Provision: X.
     
  17. Pedeguerra

    Pedeguerra I need me some PIE!

    Well, then its a matter of how you perceive "a lot". I think that if you are introducing 8 new abilities into the game its already a lot.
    I'm honestly saying that on some of these abilities I had to read 2, 3 times to even start grasping how they work. That karmatic thing for example, what the heck.
    Point stands that if I, a veteran player, have troubles grasping these new mechanics being released, imagine a guy getting into the game now. Just seem too overwhelming. But since you already acknowledge that, its all good.
    Also:
    Lol @ that Drain Vitality spell. "Balanced".
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2015
  18. doubtofbuddha

    doubtofbuddha I need me some PIE!

    I am no sure why Arcblade needed a new ability. A lot of special abilities are keyed off the unit's basic attack damage and it seems like you could have done the same thing here.

    Also arcblade seems like it might be bugged, but I can't reproduce it. Hrm.. Actually it may be bodyguard related? I am going to do some more testing.


    Yeah, Drain Vitality is ridiculous. Both on its own and compared to Devolve which high ranked KF players run in their meta-bgs. I mean seriously? What is up with that?
     
  19. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Initially that ability line were intended replace the unit's base attack. But that isn't the case anymore so you might be right there. There are some edge-case problems with keying off the base attack but those are pretty rare and it usually does default to damage Physical in most cases.
     
  20. Beasts for life

    Beasts for life I need me some PIE!

    Change frostbite to only affect ememy champs and reduce cost
     

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