Cactuar Crate: Planar Disturbances

Well I mean punishing aura, I definately don't think is worth 10 nora, I was expecting it to be like 4-5, and was shocked to see it's 10. Looking at all the champs with punishing aura, it's either never going to be picked on champs like Vanguard and Executioner, or the champs with it themselves are close to unrunnable.

Also personally for me, I don't think he's worth the nora because he seems to be having abit of a role issue imo, he seems to have been built so that he's abit of everything, but this means he doesn't fill anything. He just half arsed fills a role, half arsed fills another and costs a crap ton because of the combination. Like he's got decent damage, good speed but then he has his half arsed tank build, which just makes him more expensive for little reason.

Like to me it seems he would benefit more from either being a speed based bruiser, or being a tank rather than a half and half because simply theres just so many better options that fill the roles much better than if you ran him to try fill whatever role your trying to run him for.

 

Desecrate earth might be overcosted. It doesn't work with multiattack, and has a big ap cost and long CD on a champ that wants to use its ap to attack.

 

It is, but this is what im trying to get across but clearly not very well. Oblivion shield and scale armor are good abilities don't get me wrong, but these are the reasons why he's having a role crisis imo. Your basically forced to either go with punishing aura which I feel is overcosted or 1 of 2 defense options, which really don't suit him because hes got the stats for a damage champ thus making him too expensive for what he can fill in a role.

 

Id probably look at his second upgrade tree then, his first tier gives him two excellent defensive abilities which is great, exactly what you need to on an expensive rune but his second tier is a whole lot of nothing. Hes got great base stats but base stats cant carry an expensive rune like that. It needs to be "unfair" in some way(Read, situationally abusive). Hes very vanilla as it stands and FW cant take decent base stats and roll it into a monster like IS can for example.

 

How do you settle on your negative modifiers? 4 seems like a fudge roll, or are there some with -13modifiers, any with positive modifiers?

 

I wouldn't call venger vanilla, but I do feel he's a bit awkward. He's expensive and part-tank, part-beater.

Unfortunately that begs the question, why run him when you can play a champion that costs probably 10-15 less and excels at one role?

As much as I hated playing against him pre-revamp, I do miss seeing him as his sprite is one of the best in the game.

 

Is he not? Its not the nora cost in abilities that makes a champion exciting, its the abilities themselves. On base hes got oblivion shield and multi attack. Great. Two abilities you dont interact with at all, to compare him to something similar lets go with vothsair ireguard. You have a great defensive tool(arrow eater) and youve got multiattack on a rune with good base stats

So great, Lets list what makes the ireguard more interesting. Hes part of the UD faction making his good base damage great(everyone loves big numbers), hes got higher ranks of multi attack so hes far more likely to get that crucial doubletap, hes got range 1-2 to even further increase the odds of a doubletap(doubletaps feel excellent) and hes got fury to make you feel even better. You just doubletapped for huge damage and now next time youre going to do even more! This is to say nothing of the fact that vothsairs are commonly run with priestesses for the relocate(A tool FW lacks barring the also expensive moragen who also has extremely powerful upgrades competing with it)

The venger doesnt really have any of that. His unique thing is desecrate earth. Its... Okay. You can have some fun by limiting the enemies movement and making them sit in the damage but it lacks a secondary effect like consecrate. Understandeable since damage is stronger than healing but still, it might as well be a minor breath attack that may or may not force the enemy to spend a couple AP to move to a slightly different part of the font.

 

Is that not what he is? He has two abilities that make removing the body harder(and one upgrade you will never take) and another upgrade to improve his damage, and not even that well if you consider that FW isnt really big on super champs barring vengeful runes(12-13 damage is sort of expected of any combat rune these days, though its usually accomplished with buffs rather than on the base rune). But fine, if you dont consider a rune vanilla because its got some durability and some damage thats completely fine. But its true that hes not worth paying for what he currently does. If you want him to be an expensive rune rather than be a cheap beater you should give him more. Give him a vulnerability so you can add another ability to improve either his tank or his damage(Or both, melee specialist perhaps?). As it stands he doesnt give the opponent too many avenues of interaction, even less if you take scale armor and that heavily impacts his power budget, you cant make him too powerful or hes a meta rune thats run 100% of the time because his power is going to always be applicable. But if he has weaknesses or his power needs conditions to be met than he can be both fun and balanced

 

@DukeofDunks by your standards almost every rune is "vanilla"

Anyway, I think he should be rejigged to either be a threat or a tank. Or maybe upgrade 1 has options to let players pick between one of those 2 roles (rather than upgrade 1 being 3 different tank options).

Hey Sok, how about trialling the upgrades packages on him?

Upgrade 1
- +2 def, oblivion shield, +5 hp
- +2 dmg, multi 1, +1 max range

Upgrade 2
- defiling aura
- something else small but cute.

Rebalance base stats and cost accordingly. There you go, you don't even have to do anything now, take the afternoon off!

 

I DEMAND H0SPY'S DEMANDS BE MET ASAP, YES HE IS FORCING ME TO TYPE THIS BUT THATS NOT THE POINT SO STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. IF HE WANTS VENGER TO HAVE 9 ABILITIES GIVE IT 10. IF HE WANTS ONE IMMUNITY GIVE IT 4. I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DO BUT FOR THE LOVE OF THE ALMIGHTY AND EVERYTHING HE DIED FOR GIVE THE MAN WHAT HE WANTS.

 

Yes, very good. I am proud xx

 

What's your definition of meat shield?

 

- Yeah and sadly what made him the "Venger" was the unique desecrate ability...but maybe that desecrate effect change to instead of just non-undead...but everything but undead and paladin are affected.