Could we make seism take more skill?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by free20play, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    Lets stop pretending its not a badly designed skill.
    Make it an activatable ability removed after use on Seism units that grants pariah to all enemy relics with 5,6,7,8( whatever range the devs think is good )and also disables them for 4 or 5 turns if that's too strong make it all relics not just enemy.
    there are atleast 20+ different ways I see Seism could've been designed differently. Here's what I think; Pox Nora doesn't need more global effects or skills they should be incredibly rare and have heavy limits ;it reminds me too much of old psychic jab (or any broken global effect from the past) in some ways except perhaps nobody cares right now since there's only a few units with this ability. But somewhere down the line it'll be spread like crazy. I know there are many different ways this skill could be changed ; from making it have a short area reach centered around first or last champ deployed/furthest champ from your shrine and probably several other good ideas others here could come up with .Lets just be honest global effects have always been frustrating to face and removed alot of future rune idea's and or eventually caused many balance problems. I don't mind seeing Seism played as its just another "meta" ability,all I just want is this skill to take more skill.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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  2. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    I was sifting through some older posts about Seism ; and there were alot of good idea's like relic guardian countering Seism and such
    or Seism doing 10 dmg per turn to enemy relics for two turns or enemy relics are destroyed if no allied champs are within x range of enemy relics; honestly there are so many versions of it that we could think of that'd be better designed then what we have now. So Sokolov why don't you tell us what your first versions of it were.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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  3. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    No.
     
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  4. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    I also have a question for you Sok. Was Seism made to counter people deploying banners and such relics behind their shrines? And if it was why didn't you do some sweeping general changes to such tactics instead of bringing another global effect into the game? Perhaps brought in something like relics deployed in font deployment zones after x amount of turns will lose x amount of hp over time til they reach a certain threshold, why didn't you bring in new mechanics to give in incentives or disincentives towards this tactic. Why does it feel like Seisms a lazy shortcut?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I am happy with the way it works right now. It's a simple ability with a clear purpose.

    Most of the ideas for changing it largely just make it vastly more complicated for no real good reason other than some nebulous idea that it takes more "skill."
     
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  6. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    No. It was made to counter relics in general.

    If I wanted to counter relics behind shrines, I surely wouldn't make it "closest relic."
     
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  7. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    That's where the skill gets involved. Deploying behind the enemy Shrine. Long live the Skywing Beacon and Necrosis!
     
  8. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Seisism is stupid design
     
  9. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    it needs to be redesigned, it will probably end up being shoeboxed if they ever change it tho.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  10. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    What if instead of "the closest relic to this champ" it works as "the closest relic to enemy shrine" ?
     
  11. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    no.... lol.
     
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  12. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    insta-kill, insta-destroy has never been good.
     
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  13. Thbigchief

    Thbigchief I need me some PIE!

    - Guys guys, no worries the clear fix is to just make it like this...

    Relic Blockade....I mean Seism!
    The next relic deployed by your enemy is destroyed. This units health is reduced to 1 when Seism triggers. This effect is hidden until triggered. If the unit that activated this effect is removed from play before it is triggered then the effect will not trigger.

    - I mean spell blockade is a fan favorite so lets just slide that totally balanced model onto seism.
     
  14. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    not 1hp, but 25/50% health. Set to 1hp is way too much. Same opinion on the Magister. He could possibly get a cost decrease too.
     
  15. Tarabostes

    Tarabostes I need me some PIE!

    +5 nora and call it a day
     
  16. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    I'm just gonna quote sokolov here but i'm not going to use the quote feature so he doesn't get a notification for this ******** thread.

    "I'm happy with the way it works right now" ~Sokolov, 2016.

    AKA he's probably not gonna change it also it doesn't need to be changed so why waste your time making "useful suggestions"
     
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  17. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    Because Seism is actually problematic and a lot of the players who have a deeper understanding of the game mechanics that's combined with the knowledgy of poxnora rune history of certain problematic interactions, it is our right to suggest what we feel has been problematic in terms of its design idea.
     
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  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Discussion is always helpful, and I am known to change my mind.

    In this case, I am not convinced by the current lines of discussion, in particular the "skill" argument and the alternatives (which all serve to either make it much less useful or complicated).

    The only idea I really like is reducing the damage, and I'd lean towards 15 so that most relics become one shot by just about anything.
     
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  19. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    The fact that it's added completely random to random themes/meta bgs doesn't make it in any way balanced. What's the point of giving out random units extremely efficient abillities in the current relic meta? I don't see how it offers any counter play for factions in a bigger level if you look at the bigger picture. It simply creates SoE style powercreep. If you want to introduce Seos, as an abillity that is for ALL factions, then you should've thought it through and gave it to every possible theme, which is pretty difficult to do correctly, consdering how a lot of units these days have multirace/class efficiency.
     
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    I disagree with almost everything you said. Abilities are efficient in different situations, and the fact that some themes have access to X or Y doesn't make it "random." I mean, you might as well call the entire game random at that point.

    The "extremely efficient" argument is simply one of power level, and doesn't have a whole lot to do specifically with the design so the fact that it's "on champions" isn't problematic from that standpoint, nor, again, is it just randomly efficient.

    I feel that it offers interesting and meaningful choices to the player because you have to decide whether the Seism champion is worth deploying right now, and the determination depends on a variety of factors.

    I do not think every ability needs to be available to every faction for it to be balanced, and honestly, there are a variety of good anti-relic runes out there all over the place.
     

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