Dark blue OR & gun control

Shooter was methodical. It appears that everyone else in that room acted like sheep.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lucky-one-roseburg-shooting-speaks-massacre-034409670.html

 

If only they'd had guns to shoot around wildly.

 

If only

 

"Shoot around wildly" is a HORRIBLE strat @BurnPyro .

Gun control is using both hands, aiming carefully, and neutralizing the threat. Savvy?

 

Having a gun does NOT guarantee success. But it can fundamentally transform the altercation.

Good, trained folks with guns stopped the 26 y/o nut job. Such folks do NOT have to be law enforcement to save lives. In this scenario, as in 1000s of others, heroes saved the day. 9 were murdered methodically, but it would have been worse without good, trained folks with guns. Much gratitude.

Wolves have guns. Some sheep carry guns. Others without guns are still honey badgers. (See dude that stopped Paris train attack). I have never ever open or concealed carry. But u can bet your last dollar I won't die without a fight. Again, NOT saying I would win. State of mind does grant one a better chance of survival. Proprioception and vigilance FTW.

Have a bright day man.

 

I find Americans to be odd...

Friendly, fun, creative and intelligent... and yet they kill each other at a constant rate... who else does this?

I'm not saying banning guns solves this... but man, you guys are screwed up!

 

To me this sounds like those classic "boy I wish there was a zombie apocalypse" kind of statements, until you're actually there. I'm not attacking you personally, I just find it hard to believe that most people who have a gun in their home do anything productive with it when they're actually under threat. Sure there's your trained folks, but I don't believe those are a majority. (I don't have any numbers on this).

I think part of the huge gun ownership numbers are made up by people who think it's cool to have one or have this idea that they're going to pull some heroic Bane Shift at some point. They're also the kind of people who shoot a relative when they come home at night or don't stop to think when they're emotional/in a heated situation.

I don't know. Even with serious regulation and checks, you can't get past human nature. Just my thoughts.

 

this calm and collected thinking under pressure is also how no human has died in a fire for the last couple hundred years.

 

what if you are the first person shot?

 

Certain types of Americans are committing most of the violent crimes. Thus the vast majority of people here are essentially just like the vast majority of people in Europe. (Links and videos have been provided within this very thread that prove this point). Also, declaring that 320 million people that u don't know have the same weakness might be called bigotry in some quarters. I see violence as a human problem, since it was NOT created by Americans and will NOT disappear even if every single Yankee was nuked tomorrow.

The world is full to the brim with violence right now. Most if it has absolutely nothing to do with a particular country. Sad reality. I believe the solution is to greatly strengthen the institution called family. But with an emphasis on no violence at all in rearing of children. Nothing else will suffice. IMO of course.

 

You've repeatedly talked about there being tradeoffs. "Yeah, this theoretically bad thing happens because of government, but you get roads!" (paraphrasing heavily). Now, I don't think that's exactly the same as what I suggested, but it is remotely similar.

Even if no one has said it, the point is that I'm not structuring the argument to be "flawless" precisely because that argument isn't flawless to begin with. All I was doing was pointing out that there being good people within an evil organization is not in itself contradictory.

What are you even going on about? Do you even remember how this branch of the conversation got started?

Geressen created a straw man of DarkJello's arguments, I pointed out that even if that Straw Man held up for DJ, it wasn't self-contradictory. I have no idea where you're going with this, other than maybe just arguing to argue?

 

Good points. I believe the 2nd Amendment is more good than bad, but that is just my opinion. I get angry too easy, which is probably why I personally never carry a gun. But also because I am lazy, and don't think carrying a gun is wise unless I trained a TON more.

I believe bombs are more beneficial than negative too. Bad peeps have them, so good peeps need them. Obviously they can cause horrific damage even in the hands of noble and trained military forces. (See hospital in Afghan that USA bombed). Apparently just today more than 80 peace protesters were killed--and more than 180 injured--by a bomb in Turkey just today. Humans can be the best, the worst, and/or everything in between.

 

I just don't get handing over all personal responsibility to the government to the point where you don't even want to be able to defend yourself. Sheep is the word alright.

 

Interesting OP piece I saw while looking around at Rice/Gates OP I posted in a separate thread:

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/opinion/4595838-181/krauthammer-another-massacre-another-charade

 

The legend says that if you say "defend yourself with a gun" long enough, crime will go down.



Wait a minute

 

Reread things, I THINK I get what you were getting at. Anyway, moving on...

Erm... I'm pretty sure animals do that too. Sheep for instance. Also Wolves, Hyenas, many varieties of fish...

Heck, animals will even band together with humans.

I suppose one could argue it's different because of sapience, but then I'd argue that sapience is what makes us different from animals in that case...

Anyway, if you're able to trust one another, why not let one another have guns if they wish?

Well, it does seem to be a relatively effective deterrent against assaults against protected government officials.

Actually, that'd be an interesting study. To look and see how many violent crimes are successfully purpetrated against people with armed bodyguards vs the general public on a per-capita basis. It wouldn't be conclusive without a LOT of extra data (motive mainly, also when/why they got the bodyguards, etc.) but it would be interesting. Also split compare for those with civilian gun access and those without civilian gun access.

 

1979
An Old West gunfighter (Hal Holbrook) turns a young farmer (Jeff Osterhage) into a justice fighter with a special gun.