Background -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had a cool theme idea for a Draksar Rework. Some of you may think they don't need a rework because of the violent racial, but since violent on ranged champions has proven difficult to balance, It has left us with 90 percent of Draksars being melee (some of which don't even have violent) and 10 percent of the Draksars being ranged but underwhelming and without their violent racial. Because of this inconsistency and difficulty in balancing violent on range, I suggest a rework, and I think I have a decent idea. So first off, I think it is important in theme related strategy to consider WHAT you are playing and how it makes you FEEL when you play that specific theme. It should be more than "these runes look cool" or "I like dragons" when running a themed strategy. Obviously synergy is needed, but I think it is also important to consider a race and what they may be known for, to properly execute a strategy that makes a player's champs really FEEL like that specific race or theme. For example Dwarves. Dwarves are known for being drunkards, stubborn, resilient, smaller, but work amazing as a team. I feel like we have a decent representation of that considering some abilities like carouse, keg toss, drunkard, and they all need each other to pass around brews or trigger violent. My point is that it is so much more fun when a themed strategy really feels representative or reflective of its race. That said, Draksars (as far as I know) are known for being powerful and militant. The violent racial makes Draksar feel more like a building power rather than a strong military. The following idea is meant to give Draksars a good militant feel and a racial that they all can participate in. A few people have been saying a Roman phalanxe kind of style to represent Draksars would be cool and I really liked that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idea -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Without further ado, my idea: -Firstly, I propose to do away with the violent racial. You could even return granting on cast violent for 4 turns onto the spell "channeled violence." That would make the spell even stronger in Draksar theme. -For the new racial, basically all Draksars would gain 1 of 2 new abilities: Draksar Legion or Draksar Lieutenant. I created a few new abilities, but all of my created abilities simply encase abilities that are already in the game. I wanted to split up the power of the new racial two ways: half of the power onto most of the Draksar units, and the latter half onto battle leader/commanding type units. I wanted to create a concept that really felt like a tight knit military that is tough to fight in numbers (maybe more like the 300 spartan kind of a thing). And what is a military without a strong leader? I suggest to take a small handful of Draksar that look or are high ranking, and give them a new ability: Draksar Lieutenant. The champs I had in mind as recipients of the new ability are Draksar Lord, Blackscale Centurion, Draksar High Marshal, maybe Draksar Legionaire, Draksar master, maybe Dunewalker, Flagellum of Chains, and Sandstalker Lord. Basically champs who appear to be or according to their lore are battle leaders who command the legions. The rest of the Draksar units would receive the basic racial: Draksar Legion (When you control at least 4 champions with the race Draksar, Draksars you control with a minimum range of 1 gain Vigilance, and ranged Draksars gain Strike.) The basic racial (Draksar Legion) may seem underwhelming, but the real power of the army comes when it is commanded by one of its leaders with the Lieutenant ability. -The Draksar Lieutenant ability would read something like this: Draksar Lieutenant: There can only be two units in play under your control with this ability. When this unit is deployed, if there is no other unit with the ability "Draksar Lieutenant," this champion becomes First Lieutenant and is granted the following 4 activateable abilities: Draksar Barricade, Command: Retreat, Command: Hold Ground, and Divide and Conquer. If this unit is deployed and there is already a unit in play that you control with the ability "Draksar Lieutenant," this unit becomes 2nd Lieutenant. 2nd Lieutenants are not granted the 4 activateable abilities and cannot be affected by any of the 4 abilities from a 1st lieutenant. If a 1st lieutenant is destroyed or removed from play, if there is a 2nd lieutenant in play, he is promoted to 1st lieutenant. If a Draksar 1st lieutenant is destroyed and there is no 2nd lieutenant to take his place, all Draksar within 8 spaces of the destroyed Lieutenant are frightened for 4 turns. -Draksar Barricade: (ap:3, cd:3) Draksar within 7 spaces that you control with a minimum range of 1 gain unstoppable, planar bound, spontaneous regeneration/calcify and -5dmg for 2 turns; and ranged Draksar you control gain evasive 2 and -5dmg for 2 turns. You can only activate 1 Lieutenant ability per turn. -Command: Retreat: (ap:3, cd:3) Draksar within 7 spaces that you control are cleansed, pacified, and gain retreat 3 for 2 turns. You can only activate 1 Lieutenant ability per turn. -Command: Hold Ground: (ap:3, cd:3) Draksar within 7 spaces that you control with a minimum range of 1 gain block for 2 turns; and ranged Draksar you control gain Sentinel for 2 turns. You can only activate 1 Lieutenant ability per turn. -Divide and Conquer: (ap:3, cd:3) Draksar within 7 spaces that you control with a minimum range of 1 gain a rank of multiattack for 2 turns; and ranged Draksar you control gain encouraged and battle leader for 2 turns. You can only activate 1 Lieutenant ability per turn. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conclusion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is a bit to type, but to sum up, Draksar will have clearly outlined advantages and disadvantages. Their strength will really come from the Draksar Lieutenants who can give versatile commandments and buff the entire army. They will be strong in a concentrated group, but will be weaker on maps where the group is split or where they have to defend from multiple font contests. This disadvantage stems from 2 things: First, from the fact that only one Lieutenant can be active at a time, so a player will have to choose where to send him; and Second, from the basic racial "Draksar Legion" which is stronger the more units you have in one place. Battle groups with good spot removal will do a number on Draksar. Spot removal or crowd control on lieutenants will prevent lots of their power, and all factions have decent access to spot removal options: UD (FR), SP (VP), KF (vortex or shimmering flower), IS (plenty), SL (FF or DF), and FW (ED or doom) to provide a few examples. Even distracting a Lieutenant can prevent a lot of the Draksars' power, but if you can destroy one you will give yourself an advantage. As a Draksar player, you can be proactive and bring out a 2nd lieutenant in anticipation of losing the 1st, but notice that a second lieutenant has no access to the 4 battle commands nor does he receive the buffs from a first lieutenant. So basically you spend a good 70-80 nora on a backup Lieutenant which is a waste of nora unless he eventually gets promoted. He only gets promoted on death of the 1st or when the 1st is removed from play. Note: you can still distract the first or say vortex him to prevent both lieutenants from having any impact. The numbers and abilities can be tweaked for balance-sake, but it is mostly the concept that I wanted to get across and get feedback on. What do ya guys think? @themacca @Sokolov -GG --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I re read everything a couple times and altho i agree with the aproach its like the barbarian's racial, I don't like this idea. Not only you want to make a racial that grants 4 activable abilities, which grant then more abilities, but those abilities grant things like spontaneous regeneration, mass cleanse, sentinel and others.. This would be overcomplicated and op and such a racial would cost around 40 nora
Well you may be right about the complicated part. It can be simplified or tweaked to fit right but its mostly the concept I wanted to get across. Also note that the activateable abilities are only 1 round at a time and on cd 3 and only one champ that grants them can be fielded at once. We could even make it 3 activateable abilities to simplify. Its mostly the concept that I was playin around with and liked.
I mean, i really like the millitary notion of the draksars and dividing defensive/ofensive stances but if you have this "Commanders" then the theme becomes like moga/Ghern or barbarians/warchiefs, that small group of commanders become autoinclude.. And most important, to me a racial ability should be entirely passive.
Just wanted to say conceptually cool, tho I think in general the specific pieces have too many moving parts and too many abilities being granted. That said, I think there's merit to the concept and we can definitely use something like this. I will post again later when this is closer to something I will be implementing with updated takes on this. Similar to what happened with the Salaman.
Cool! I figured it could be a bit too many abilities but it was mostly the concept I wanted to suggest. Also it does seem a bit more complex with a full explanation, but to put it a basic way, I separated all Draksar into 2 categories: Infantry and Archery (or melee and ranged). For the basic racial, melee get vigilance and ranged get strike. Then I added a Lieutenants which is where the fun and strategy come in. Its probably better to give em 3 activateable abilities rather than 4, but each is meant to give a 1 round perk at cd:3 (that differ for melee and ranged). Simpler concept once it is all explained the first time, I just wanted to be thorough. @Kampel btw thank you for reading and rereading. About what you said concerning a moga/ghern concept, I thought about that too. I wanted to create an idea that left Draksar good on their own, but stronger with a leader (like a military). There are a few lead unit type strategies already in pox like moga or kanen, but I wanted to have a leader that purely caused the rest of the army to be better, rather than an auto-include type that caused bgs to fall apart without. Moga usually are weak without ghern, kanen lack good damage output without packleaders, and barbs don't pass the baton without warchiefs. How I propose it, there is a basic Draksar racial that melee and ranged are incentivized to obtain by fielding at least 4 Draksar. Vigilance will make melee Draksar a bit more tanky and more resistant to things like dot, while still giving them some good bonus dmg when fighting with same-raced allies. Strike on the ranged Draksars simply make the range we have more dependent and reliable damage-wise while not scaling out of control like violent always seems to. So far, Draksars would get a racial that is independent of a battle leader type unit and totally playable without one. I wanted to add Lieutenants as purely strategic utility (to make defensive turns a bit stronger, or to make offensive turns more potent). But if you do choose to use this extra utility tool, I figured it should be somewhat punishable. So I made it if a Lieutenant is destroyed all Draksar within 8 spaces are frightened briefly. My goal was to give strategic utility with good opportunity to counterplay as well. I also originally posted 4 activateble abilities at cd:3 because I didn't want to make Lieutenants too predictable as their abilities cycle off cd in extended skirmishes, but I wanted them to be somewhat predictable. For example, if I'm going to unleash my attack force or power round against Draksar, I probably wouldn't want to if they used Draksar Barricade. However once they use it, they are vulnerable for 2 rounds afterwards to my assault. Similarly speaking, I don't need to reposition my units as defensively if they used divide and conquer last round. I wanted to make counterplay thoughts more along those lines than "ok barricades next turn cause thats whats off cd." Get what I mean? But yeah I totally am with you on a leader-autoinclude. I don't want it to be that way. I wanted it as more of a "extra utility but punishable if relied on" kind of a thing. PS I thought quite a bit about incorporating regen into the racial somehow, but the best comparison I can make is that regen is like boon of the undead to SL. It is practically expected at varying levels on SL champs. Like leap and amphibious is for FS or Arctic on ST units, its almost a universally included ability apart from their faction bonuses.
Interesting idea mate. Probably a bit too complicated for me, it looks very messy, but a simpler version might be an idea. +1 for effort though man.
I can't wait for the draksar rework. Since I am a beginner I only have 1 BG so far, and it's draksar. I think that the theme is boring, [..and as I heard, they are not in a very good condition with regard to MP balance, IE. they are not so good at the moment] especially because I have many champs with the Regen 1-2-3 upgrade tree. It is just plain boring. I think that regen should be a passive, and we should have interesting ability trees. Many draksars have 1 ability tree and 1 regen tree. :| Also, I think that Violent should stay as it is. If that ability is going to be removed, we will need proper upgrades for most of the champs.
While, like other pointed out, the first idea is very complicated, I believe this would make it through "alpha-testing" stage where it feels like it matches what you are playing. From here we look at "beta-stage" aka lets hammer this out and make it balanced. I love the idea of lieutenants and legions. I honk that would be really cool for draksar. So let's discuss this more to help "inspire" Sok to greater acts of awesomeness! One think Sok has been doing is making very unique new abilities for racials/themes. So here is what we have: Two part symbiotic ability Racial based ability (could be added to non-draksar depending on fluff perhaps) Upsides to abilities are an emphasis on (durability, damage, bit of both, new effect?) Downsides, I like the frightened effect as it isn't a permanent debuff like ghernbound, but significant enough to reduce cost and create a strategic counter play Ok so now let's talk bonuses. The theme/racials tend to give 1 or two bonuses (looking at previous patterns). The lieutenant ability I think should be more of a passive. How about if it gave something like calcify (or other defenisive ability, maybe rank of block??) to units in an aoe with the legions ability. The legions ability could be they gain flanking while in range of the lieutenant. This would build into that phalanx effect. I also think at this level you wouldn't need the restrict of only two lieutenants as they don't stack. Note: I do not know the cost of the abilities (I am at work, can't look em up) so take my suggestions with grain of salt. @Sokolov what do you think of this kind of direction?
Thank you man! Yeah we could probably simplify it a bit, but I wanted to be thorough on the concept. Yes I wanted to help make them mechanically fun. I think Sok has been doing well in creating new concepts like Salaman revolving around relics and equips to make things more unique in a theme. It is partly my goal to help Draks go in this direction. And I agree that the upgrade trees in SL have a lot less variability because of the regen 1-2-3. Thanks for the extensive feedback! I actually thought about flanking on the ranged in an offensive stance too. It would be pretty potent with dbs/quicks. Not a hundred percent sure why I shied away from it. Also the reason I wanted to make Lieutenant abilities active instead of passive was so it would be more like a battle leader calling the shots. What do you think about vigilance as the basic racial? My original idea for Draksar Legion was: When you control at least 4 champions with the race Draksar, Draksars you control gain Vigilance. I have the "at least 4" clause in there so that it solely affects Draksar themes and doesn't just universally buff every Draksar by giving each vigilance. This way you have to run multiple to get the effect. But anyways, vigilance gives a mild dmg buff and up to tough 3 when champs are engaged in combat, so like you said a bit of both dmg and durability and the ability exists. Only issue is vigilance doesn't do much for ranged champs because you don't want them engaged, so I thought to make Draksar Legion a 2-part ability. vigilance for the melee and something like strike for ranged but up for discussion. Before the Lieutenant concept, my idea for Draksar Legion was: When you control at least 4 champions with the race Draksar, Draksars you control with a minimum range of 1 gain Vigilance, and ranged Draksars gain Encouraged. Whatever abilities we choose however I think would make for the passive part of Draksars. What do you think if we made Draksar Lieutenant abilities simpler and only 3 activateable abilities? like offense/defense/retreat? Or even just offense/defense? Otherwise, what other abilities could you passively incorporate into Lieutenants that would make them feel like a commanding officer type? I wanted to make a Lieutenant to give mechanical and strategic diversity to the theme as opposed to an aoe stat booster like battle master/commander.
perhaps look at ZA for a template and the Djin abilities. Draksar Legion: While there are at least 4 other friendly Draksar in play, this unit gains Vigilance. Inspiring Leader: This champion has Regal Presence. When This champion is destroyed, all friendly units within 5 spaces become frightened for 3 turns. Drakar Lieutenant: Forward Command, This unit has Inspiring Leader Command : Charge(1). Friendly champions with Draksar Legion within 3(4?) spaces gain +1 Dmg while this unit is the only unit in play with inspiring Leader Draksar Lieutenant: Defense Command, This Unit has Inspiring Leader and Command: Block. Friendly champions withing 3(4?) spaces gain +1 Def while this unit is the only unit in play with inspiring Leader Draksar Lieutenant: Rear Command, This unit has Inspiring Leader and Command: Dodge. Friendly champions within 3 spaces with Draksar Legion gain +5 Hp while this unit is the only unit in play with inspiring Leader I am currently struggling to think of something not too complicated to really tie the lieutenant ability to legion abilities. What do you think?
That is totally the idea I am going for yeah! It is tough to do without putting several abilities in though. And if you actually think about it, putting a lot of abilities in makes it seem overcomplicated initially, but really its not that bad. I think with an in-depth and thorough explanation it may seem more complex than it really is. Once you see it, its simply the Draksar racial and 3ish battle commands that are 2 fold. Simpler than it initially sounds if that makes sense.
Vigilance would need a rework/simplification too as I need 1:45 minimum to figure out just how much the unit would benefit. Vigilance 8 Nora This champion has +1 DMG for each engaged friendly champion within 4 spaces, including itself. At the end of its turn, it gains a rank of Tough for 3 turns for each engaged friendly champion within 4 spaces, including this one. It also gains +1 SPD if that champion shares a race with it, not including itself.
I wasn't talking about the nora cost, just that it gives +3 damages, tough 3 and +1 spd if you have two other champs engaged within four spaces, one other having the same race. You have to check the champ to know which abilities were procced if you are opposing one. the abiltiy is messy.
I think vigilance is ok too. Its already kind of a racial ability which would make it a good fit for a Draksar racial. I also wasn't thinking of cost as much as I thought to give Drakies the Legion ability as an even trade for the violent ability they had/didnt ever get/had removed.
