[Faction] Exploit

The problem with Witch's Hourglass is it is giving 12 points in stats, for 25 nora to all of your champs (aoe 8 is effectively all your champs) and is triggered off something that is literally no effort. Sure you are paying points for Elsari Coven and DMZ, but you are getting real and powerful benefits for it. Strong theme enabling relics are good, but this one is a bit over the top.

 

Exploits are just really boring design. "Gain stats when X condition is on the enemy" is about as lame an ability creativity-wise as I can think of. And usually there's little counterplay involved bc your opponent both applies the condition and attacks on their turn.

 

For FS poisoned, soultapped and slowed

 

I personally love Exploit abilities.

In an ideal world where they are all costed properly you could even put them on Harbs

 

They are both over the top, bit Witch's Hourglass laughs at Snaptooth Crypt. On the surface it looks similar as they are both giving +7 nora abilities in aoe 8, but with the activation conditions of witch's hourglass, it is really +12 nora in abilities.

Both could use an aoe reduction. Witch's Hourglass at the very least should get a cost adjustment or at complete redesign.

Witching Hour would be perfectly good if it just had the healing aspect. When you throw in the +1 SPD (on top of the -1 SPD from curse) its get stuipidly oppressive.

 

I think they're flavorful. Definitely more interesting to use compared to Commander/Battlemaster.

I think that would take some careful consideration. If you'd like actual nora costs I'll devote some time to figure it out. For the most part I'd look at the 3 conditions and consider how easy they are to proc.
For example, IS and SL exploits proc on Fatigue, which happens naturally in the course of games. But on the other hand, ST can hand out Frozen and Chilled easily.
With that being said, I think IS, ST and SL should be priced the same, with FW being lower. It could be argued that FW Exploit should be the same as the others due to how easy curse is applied in witches, but that's due to the Witch Racial, which is it's own discussion.

I see the argument for them being harder to trigger. Instead of three conditions it could be reduced down to two. Might have to readjust prices.

If it just gave ap I would cost it lower. I know with my Truthseeker and Archangel, that +2 damage is being teamed up with 2 fire damage or -2 defense which makes them hit hard. I think the best "nerf" route would be to limit the conditions to two instead of three.

 

In the deck-building sense, yes, Exploits are okay. They aren't racially theme-enforced, which I like, but in this thread I was expressing dissatisfaction with the gameplay side of the abilities--that is, the tactical or in-game side of things. Because Pox is sort of a hybrid game, it has the unique challenge of having to consider game design perspectives of both tcg/ccg and turn-based strategy type games (as you already know). So yes, the abilities allow for flexible deckbuilding, but that doesn't preclude them from being boring to play with/against.

You are correct that I dislike Commander/Defender/Battlemaster and find them boring. I like abilities that manipulate gameplay elements other than stats and require non-quantative thinking. Stuff that manipulates positioning, requires a prediction of your opponent's actions, or allows for an unorthodox use of already present resources. I like stuff like Knockback, Traps, Snow Blind, Relocate, Energy Thief, Leap, Drive, Possess, Pull, Swarm, Divert, or Death Nova (among many others).

I haven't thought much about designing an ability that functions off a certain condition, but maybe something like:

Icebreaker: When this champion destroys an enemy champion with Frozen, all enemy champions within 4 spaces of the target take 8 Frost damage and gain 3 stacks of Sundered for 3 turns.

Insidious Intentions: When this champion activates an ability (this does not include basic attacks) that targets a champion with Cursed, this champion gains one of the target's upgrade abilities at random.

I think you're right that we need a variety of abilities, and I think it's okay to have some abilities be more boring than others. I wouldn't advocate for removing Exploits just because they're boring, but at the same time I think understanding how players' feel when using a champion with a specific ability can be as important to design as how powerful the ability is when in use.

 

I like the idea of rolling exploits into hunter instead.

As for complaints about witches hourglass I would mark it below snaptooth crypt and coordination tower.