One idea I had for a reworked Goblin "theme" involves CD reduction: Goblin Ingenuity: When this unit activates an ability, it loses all ranks of Curiosity and friendly Goblins within 5 spaces gain an additional rank of Curiosity (until end of turn?). This unit's abilities cost -1 AP to activate while 4+ Goblins are in play. (Can link to proximity as an alternative) Curiosity: (Rank 1/2/3) This unit's abilities have -1/-2/-3 CD to a minimum of 1. It would be important to never have a Goblin with more than 6 speed. Rather than make them fast, enable them to activate abilities more frequently and efficiently. Throw in a nice mix of 1/2 CD abilities alongside 1-2 strong long CD abilities on the "striker" champs (Arsonist/Gloombringer for example) and ensure that some of those abilities deal damage. Certain abilities will have to be blacklisted if they are deemed exploitable, but Goblins shooting fireworks everywhere would justify their inherently squishy stats.
That's a lot cooler than the current "racial ability," found on only TWO goblins, and as an upgrade on both. Currently, Goblins are unrunnable because there is NO cohesion and they are incredibly fragile. Give us a reason to run them; I think a mechanic that lowers CDs when other Goblins use abilities is pretty nifty. I don't think 7 SPD would be a big problem on a few Gobs, however -- it just can't be too common among them, is all. If you wanted a very simplified version, you could just do this, too: Eager Whenever a friendly unit with Eager within 4 spaces activates a non-basic attack ability with a cooldown of 2 or more, this unit's non-basic attack abilities have their cooldowns reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1. The requirement, that only abilities with a CD of 2 or more will trigger it, balances it and prevents easymode chains with things like Dodge or Berserk Attack, etc.
That does sound like a really nifty idea. CD reduction could be really effective, stays true to the characteristics of goblins and could give them immense utility. And every goblin already has an activate ability of some sort!
I don't have a problem with a simplified version, but this is problematic as worded. My version reduces cooldowns until an ability is used (removing Curiosity ranks). Your version will eventually push CD's to 1 where they'd stay. Whether or not you intended that, I'd find it a tad strong once it snowballed. Also, it's better to word Eager as "Whenever a friendly Goblin within 4 spaces" so that not every Goblin released needs to have it, but it supports other Goblins that do have it. It becomes somewhat more flexible than my version.
Oh, the intended effect is that cooldowns are lowered, not maximum cooldowns. Annihilate will always be CD: 3. Eager wouldn't change that. Eager simply reduces the active cooldown. Example, in the span of a single turn: 1. Goblin 1 uses Annihilate, which has a Maximum CD of 3, so its cooldown is now 3. 2. Goblin 2 uses Blood Magic within Eager range of Goblin 1. 3. Goblin 1's Annihilate is now on a cooldown of 2 -- but Annihilate's max CD is still 3, so the next time Goblin 1 uses Annihilation, its CD will be 3 rounds, as per usual. If it were to simply boost all nearby Goblins, even when they don't have the ability, then the title and wording would have to change (to make sense and to achieve the same basic effect). Bedlam Whenever this unit activates a non-basic attack ability with a cooldown of 2 or more, other Goblins within 6 spaces have their abilities' cooldowns reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1. Units with this ability are not affected. Put that on two runnable Goblins, such as the Spellkaiser and Arsonist. Done deal.
I dunno. When I think of Goblins, I think of chaos: pure, unadulterated, frenzied pandemonium. Creatures scurrying this way and that, squawking and screeching, bounding and climbing. I think of [Spielberg's] Gremlins. You get a bunch of them together, and things get frenetic. An ability that reduces cooldowns, and thereby increases skill activation rate, fits with that idea of impulsive frenzy.
the gremlins comparision is actually dangerously accurate, funny that. But yeah, he is right, the idea of cd reduction would be big power boost without making them broken. They could still run out of AP, reguire a lot of bodies to get the wheels running hard, and die pretty easily. But when the wheels start running, the things you could combo with them would probaply be one of the funniest things to play ever in poxnora. The order in which you would use abilities would also seperate good players from bad, and of course, it would be chaos. I fully support this idea, and hope some dew notices this and puts it in consideration.
Thanks. Goblins are known primarily for their incessant mischief and schemes, but Imps already took Mischief (and rightfully so, as they are also known for mischief in lore). In keeping with their penchant for mayhem, I would really, really like Goblins to rely heavily upon abilities and cooldowns. This would offset their poor stats and moderate costs while also requiring strategy. As you said: the order in which you activate abilities, and thereby reduce nearby cooldowns or put a unit's ability on cooldown, could be the difference between success and failure. Goblin Thievery is fun and potentially game-making, but it's expensive and it doesn't have representation in the theme, currently. Furthermore, if additional goblins were to get Thievery, it could get out of control. Diversifying, then -- creating another Goblin racial to compliment and synergize with Thievery -- seems like the way to go. Could you imagine the fun of stealing abilities and then potentially reducing their cooldowns? Again: this dynamic could be explosive, or it could fizzle out (you can, after all, steal abilities like Lethargic, Drunken, or Surge: Plant).
The goblin thievery should also not be the main focus of the race, since a random factor should never be focus of a theme. It just makes matches more luck based, which the total opposite direction pox goes for.
@Legato Your suggestion is unnecessarily complex. It creates the same problems the ST Discipline abilities (also, Barbarians *facedesk*) have by containing too many parts to keep track of. Also, each pairing you listed "steals" an inferior version of what you're likely trying to overcome. You end up with inferior abilities you probably shouldn't waste AP on given your opponent will undoubtedly be doing it better for the same AP. I see it being easier and more enjoyable to build Goblins around CD reduction than literal RNG chaos or class-dependent bonuses.
I agree with the first one, is this cd reduction effective? I mean, while on cd they can just still base attack
Couple quick comments First, I don't agree that I ignored the "content" of your post. The way I see it, choosing to include an example is an effort to help others visualize your ideal system. As such, I focused on your example because it's the equivalent of a prototype or rough draft. I included my own example and expected that you'll focus on it. If you feel I'm ignoring the content of your post, it's either because your example did a poor job of communicating said content or because it wasn't properly highlighted. My best guess is the content I "ignored" is the idea of receiving set abilities from Goblin Thievery based on a given variable. The target/source determines what ability is gained or some other similar form of "if X, gain Y." Feel free to correct me if I'm still missing whatever point you're getting at, but my opinion currently remains the same. Second, Goblin Thievery currently costs 5 AP. Unless you make the ability cost 0 AP, start on base and be worth 0 Nora, it's not free. Even Adaptation isn't free because it's raising the cost of the champion. It's similar to how someone might think they're using a coupon to get something for free when in reality they paid the time, travel cost and coupon acquisition cost (printed, magazine cutout, etc.). I have no doubt we could make Goblin Thievery a strong racial ability through some variation of your idea, but I consider simple changes ideal. Right now that's CD reduction, but if another idea comes along that's equally intuitive, I could see myself supporting that as well.
Goblin Mischief Stir Fry? We can do that. Braised Goblin Fish also worksm but Firk Goblin Fish is expensive.
I don't think I'm being pedantic when a large part of the game is AP management. Furthermore, people are even more concerned with the Nora cost of their champions after the revamp. Goblin Thievery consumes a sizable portion of a turn at 5 AP and carries a Nora cost of 10. Adaptation would be easier to make that claim with as it functions passively/repeatedly and is cheaper at 8 Nora. From a coding standpoint, CD reduction is simply the inverse of Restraining Aura (or Ponderous to an extent) with a Goblin restriction thrown in. I'd say the work required to implement our systems is roughly equal without knowing the exact code for each ability. I don't presume to know whether or not you have experience with programming, but I have enough to know that if I were asked to change this, it should be a relatively easy thing to do for both our ideas.
The thing is, if you make a list on what abilities they would get, then the entire power of this ability is dictated by your opponent. He doesn't want you to get a specific ability? He will just not deploy a unit of that class then. At least with the random ability steal of goblin thievery opponent can't predict what you will get from the unit.
This is extremely misguided. You're misinterpreting counterplay potential which is good in any worthwhile strategy game for an inherent flaw in the proposal. If you don't think forcing your opponent to play certain runes while passively acting as disincentive for others is power in itself than you've heretofore ignored the most potent shifting paradigms this game has to offer(I can only think of 6 mechanics that heavily change the way your opponent plays). According to your perspective: IS bonus has no value, Tainted Statue BGs are pointless and Assassinate serves no purpose. The only valid argument is that a list based structure tends to be complex, especially so with newer players, which to rectify It could be simply rooted on attack type (Think three sets of abilities, based on physical, magical, and everything else), but It mostly suffers from just being too wordy nonetheless. Another option I thought of is having it work like so: Goblin Thievery - The next Goblin you deploy gains both the upgraded abilities of target opposing champion.
