Happy Veterans Day

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Baskitkase, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. iPox

    iPox Forum Royalty

    It's very interesting to read your reasons, because it differs so very much from what we grew up with.
    I'll just write it down; but let me mention that it's not meant as criticism, but merely as a description of a different view.
    And to honour my announcement, let me start by saying thank you for your service. Even though you did not serve to defend me
    on a different continent, you did so nontheless.

    When you say, that no warrior stands up its regime, you may be expressing a very unfortunate truth, and maybe this is exactly why many Germans almost despise military in general. Where you say that "America needs her defenders" (America or just the US?), and expect her enemies to be external, many Germans have this very strong paranoia that any government or military organisation may be corrupted, and that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE to prevent that.

    Conceptually, a member of the Bundeswehr is a "citizen in uniform" (unfortunately, there is no english Wikipedia entry: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatsbürger_in_Uniform )
    What it means is that everyone is a citizen, and soldier or non-soldier are merely (temporary) properties of a citizen.
    Any citizen has the obligation to protect human dignity, international law, etc.

    Contrast this concept to your statement "You don't know what's going to happen when you enlist. Is Russia going to attack us (prob not). Are we going to attack XYZ? Dunno. I'm not concerned with that, or that I believe, in the end, that I'm part of a wonderful nation and I want to give myself to her and doing so is an honor.".
    As a citizen in uniform, if you're "not concerned with that", you would be doing it wrong.
    I find it interesting that you almost give the perfect antithesis to the self-concept of the German military by saying "It's the policy makers that make bad decisions, but it's the warriors that keep her free".
     
    Boozha likes this.
  2. Lop

    Lop The King of Potatoes

    Soldiers who tried to prevent the passing of the 1st (1791) 2nd (1816) ,3rd (1913) central banks in USA were true warriors because they were fighting to free the nation. A soldier sent overseas by a ruled country is a misled warrior. (warrior knows how to fight but is not thinking). Warriors used to stand up to its regimes but those warriors are lacking nowadays, especially in the Western World primarily because mainstream media (imposed by those in high positions of power) is extensive; the majority of the countries in the West are not sovereign.

    Consider the White Russians (nationalists) who stood up against the Bolsheviks after the revolution. Bolsheviks were fighting to ruin the country, and that is exactly they did when they conquered it. White Russians were trying to prevent this from happening. Was it the White Russians who were conscripted from outside of Russia to rally the peasants and catalyze the revolution, or the other way around? Consider the French nationalists who also stood up during and after 1789. An example of a current decent warrior would include the average Russian soldier because not only is his country sovereign in its current state, but he also is trying to keep it that way. A true warrior fights for a nation, not for a corporation; The majority of Western countries are ruled by corporations.

    Another example would include Syrian nationalists trying to cleanse their territory from mercenaries and rebels (ISIS/NUSRA). Do you know that most rebels/insurgents in Syria are actually not Syrian? What are they doing in Syria? Someone clearly gave them a motive to be there. Regardless of how mainstream media labels the Syrian nationalist, they were and are still fighting to defend their country. Is it 40+ Iran military bases surrounding USA or 40+ USA military bases surrounding Iran?. America, just as any other country, does need defenders, but only to defend the country, not to attack others. People have to admit that their nations have been hijacked.

    Lets take a look at North Korea who has been trying to prevent foreign influence from entering the country for years (and has been successful thus far). North Korea might be led by a dictator, but at least it is a nationalist dictator and although the Korean government is exploiting its citizens, to some extent, a foreign dictator would only exploit harder. The government is still trying to keep North Korea in North Korean hands. So another thing that a warrior should fight for is to decrease the degree of exploitation. It is better to have a bad X king ruling X country than a bad Y king ruling X country.

    Peace is essential because if you take a look at the world, you will see that the only ones who benefit from war are those in high positions of political power - no one else has anything to gain from it. Wars drive nations in debt and then those nations become vulnerable to financial institutions. People aren't helping Africa because people aren't being influenced to help Africa since there is no gain in that from a ruler's perspective. I agree that little people don't have power over the flow of influence, but the least we can do is resist that influence.

    For a long time, countries haven't been run under their own flags. Americans are giving themselves for an America that hasn't been an America in over a 100 years. French are giving themselves to a France that hasn't been a France in over 200 years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2014
    Saandro likes this.
  3. Lop

    Lop The King of Potatoes

    But you are right, Russia will most likely not attack. One can compare the military of both countries (USA-not sovereign) and Russia (Sovereign). USA military investment is mainly focused on offensive purposes (bombers, aircraft carriers, shock, rapid deployment, forward bases). Russia's military investment mainly focuses on defensive purposes (anti-aircraft, anti-missile, border security, and garrison). A country ruled by financial institutions molds its military for the incentive to attack others first then defend itself whereas a country ruled by its own people molds its military toe defend itself first then attack others.
     
  4. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Lop, if you want anyone to read that you are going to have to do something with that block of words.

    To the first paragraph: Thanks, I appreciate that you appreciate service, as do I, across borders.

    To the 2nd paragraph: America as in the US, as that is how we define ourselves because of the word being in the name of our country, same as Canada calls themselves Canadians, Mexico calls themselves Mexicans. Very rarely do people actually call themselves Americans, or North/Central/South Americans as a way of defining where they are from when speaking of their country. The reasons we do that is simply, like the rest of everyone else, is because its in our name.

    Third Paragraph: Yeah, it's just how I see things, and mostly I'm in the majority. I'm definitely not a citizen in uniform. I could care less about the uniform or the authority. I'm a citizen who has laid himself at the behest of his country. Germans have a bad history with that ideal, I get it, but we do not. That is simply how it is. A German might say "well you're headed for disaster" but there have been (and are) many other countries that have the same or similar ideas that have not tried twice to take over the world and received twice a dirt nap. I would never live in fear of what my country might do. I refuse fear altogether. I'll do what I think is right as a man, countryman, husband and father based on my perception of what is right. I don't require everyone to agree with it, but if you're going to opine at it I'll let you know what I think about your opinions.
     
  5. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    You are shedding your responsibility. A person needs to think about his actions for himself and do what he knows to be right and refuse to do what he knows to not be right. Should the concentration camp guards have shed their responsibility for the happenings as they did? Clearly not. A soldier is a taker of orders, but if those orders violate general moral convictions or local or international law you are oblieged to deny them as a human, not as a soldier. Which comes first, being a soldier or a human? Clearly to be a human; we are not defined by our job or by our oaths or by our superiors but by the decisions and actions we ourselves make. Including the decisions to follow orders or to not follow orders.
     
  6. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    K, you are Germany, we are not. It's different. Either see that it is and move on or just let it go. Pretty simple. I recognize that you see things differently. Thats great, you are entitled to your opinions. I'm 100% satisfied with my decisions and actions. I'll not debate the subject with you any longer. You're the type whose got all these great ideas but all you'll ever do about it is type words on the interweb I'm the type who has done something about what I believe and now talking to you about it on the interweb has lost appeal.
     
  7. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    When doing what you believe kills other people you should think about it long and hard, not defer to simple nationalistic ideals. And stop talking about what "type of people" we are, or I have some unkind words to the same tune left.
     
  8. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    You should look up nationalist in the dictionary. That was a valid stance about 300 years ago but we've nothing to be nationalist about.
     
  9. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    I suggest stopping, then.
     
  10. Vaayshan

    Vaayshan Member

    @Baskitkase

    I am seriously failing to understand you here. You say people who are out there on the front lines enable freedom, but for whom? America has one of the greatest militaries in the world, do you think somehow your freedom would be endangered if you would not have attacked Iraq? If you would not have attacked Vietnam or Korea? No, it wouldn't be. Nobody would dare to attack you. And it certainly didn't bring freedom and peace to the attacked countries.

    Why doesn't the army of your great nation help Gaza, where innocent civilians get butchered every day? Why don't they help Africa? Why didn't they intervene in Syria? All these are worthy causes to fight for, but there is nothing to be gained for your army in fightning there, simple as that. A good example of this would be Panama, where America supported the dictator Noriega until he started shying away from America. After that they intervened, not before, even though Noriega was a piece of Bane Shift who was exploiting the coutry for years.

    I hate to break it to you, but your great military is only acting when there is something to be gained(or when they are afraid of communism), not when freedom is at stake.
     
  11. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    this thread


    zzzz
     
  12. egami

    egami Devotee of the Blood Owl

    This is why I can't wait for the zombie apocalypse.
     
  13. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    ... And then? Finally everyone can shoot (former) people?
     
  14. Makorov

    Makorov I need me some PIE!

    Even better, eventually there'll be no more people
     
  15. egami

    egami Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Not you Boozha. I am sure you'd be too conflicted. You'd be waiting of the zombies to respect a court order to desist and/or trying to respect a UN resolution that recognized the rights of the vitality challenged.
     
    Baskitkase likes this.
  16. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    I actually like guns and shooting inanimate things. Zombies count as inanimate. They are also dangerous, so I can be pacifist and heroic at the same time. If you try to stop me from shooting zombies we'll have to have some stern words.
     
  17. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    If you'll read my earlier posts, these points have already been covered. I specifically mentioned Africa.

    You'd need to study US foreign policy around the erra of Pres. Woodrow Wilson, it's been coined "internationalism" but what it boils down to is 1) Using other countries natural resources before our own, 2) Ally with those most likely to stay allied with us, and ally with Israel regardless of what they do, 3) secure the area from and around which we buy natural resources under the pretense of peace and democracy (read: Fourteen Points). Since then it has also expanded to oppressing and invading where we cannot economically coerce.

    That's how we operate. It's very capitalistic. It's moral so long as morality happens to agree with it, depending on one's interpretation of what is moral. But it's goal is not to be moral, only to have a moral covering for publicity's sake.

    BTW, all of the 1st world now operates this way, most just not to the degree as does the USA.

    You might not like it. I get that. But your preference really changes nothing it's worth is absolutely zero to the decision makers.

    That all goes towards giving my legacy the best possible America, not the best possible world. The world is not ours to make and would be impossible should anyone try (and people have tried, Germans). Germans were way further ahead in the world at the time they tried than the USA is now.

    Blow hard at it. Maybe it will fall. My guess is no.
     
  18. Baskitkase

    Baskitkase Forum Royalty

    Lol @ u saying it's OK to shoot dangerous things. Who defines dangerous? What a fukcing joke you are. Think I'll just add you to the list with Prami and Agron is as forumers who ceased to exist.

    Been good.
     
  19. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    You missed "inanimate", didn't you. For living dangerous things its basically complicated
     
  20. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    shoot inanimate things? like ... falling trees?

    actually plants are animate just very slow...

    so ... falling walls?
     

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