1. Sentry. +5 nora. Lose 1 rank of evasive. Door becomes a Summoned Relic (cant contest a font) 2. Teleporting with Door costs 3 ap. 3. Flamecrucher. -4 damage Gains Surge Minotaur. Protective and Flamethrower swithces place as base/upgrade.
Well, I'm with Pede on this one, the hyper mobility and cost efficiency that minos bring to the table is rather out of hand. These are my opinions on how to nerf them -Sentry is one of the runes in that still does everything at once, needs to lose its ranged attack, its ranged defense (evasive) or its melee defense, maybe even multiples of those before it can be truly balanceable. Fix: Upgrades to Battlemaster 3, Multiattack 1, Mason 2, Stat Bonus: Speed 1 -Battlemage has a perseverance counter counter and perseverance. Fix: Empower now grants Fury rather than Regeneration. -Dimension Door lasts forever and gives huge ap efficiency. Fix: Can only target squares adjacent to the relic, and the relic loses 10 hp (so 2 uses). -Flamecrusher is somewhat too efficient: +2 nora and Flamethrower and Trample switch places.
lol , door gets nerfed , minos are shoebox.... im sure of it, look at them all carefully then look at other themes....mino don't have much/any synergy other then all using that door haha......... Im not saying minos shouldn't get nerfed , im saying don't hit the only theme item the theme actually has. Nerf all the minos but increase their synergy to make them a little harder to play but still very powerful... its not about having strong units its about them working together in a strong way..........Which currently they don't even need to do.
Well its not like +1 AP is gonna change stuff. if you think door is balanced now (basically giving most of your champs +4 SPD (2 ap for 6 spaces), giving Eva 2 too), then think again. And do you really think a 60-nora Detection unit that has decent stats, can do both range and melee, with an inbuilt evasive, AND can deploy a relic (not a summoned relic) is balanced? I'm sure if its not in UD you would say the same thing as what we're saying...
I hardly play minotaurs, but there are three "possible" problems with the door: 1) It's useable on deployment. So it's a bit like on demand pseudo ap gen or initiative. 2) It's pseudo-ap gen. 2 ap for 6 spaces of movement can be equal to +4 ap in some circumstances. 3) It can be used by multiple champions each turn. This multiplies the amount of pseudo ap gen, but it also means that road-blocking champions can be bypassed and the melee-centered melee theme can focus fire down a single champ in a way that melee champs normally have a hard time doing. Personally, I suspect #3 is the issue, so limiting the uses per turn seems like the solution.
Mino units are individually strong but their racial synergy is bad, hence their use in good stuff bgs and not so much as a theme. I do however think some of them could certainly use a lateral nerf (battlemage) or flat out nerf (sentry) of some kind, and they would still be run.
Acctually you are spot on Scarlet, what agirgis seemly has a problem with is nerfing the Doors - and they are the ones who deserve the nerf the most. Again, I will repeat: the amount of draw wins the doors enable early game, combined with the amount of AP they generate mid and late game, make them completely out of line, the likes of Tailwind, Skywing and Mischief out of line. AP and nora rule the game, there´s no way the door mechanic as it is now is healthy for the game.
*deviates back to Minotaurs* My argument is on two things: The Door and the Mino Sentry. What Agrigis was telling us is that the Minos are individually strong and the thing that needs the nerf are the Minos not the doors. That is also agreeable. Both arguments: Minos are too strong individually, and The Door is too strong. the problem is: most minos are pseudo range, and not necessarily melee when most minos are intended to be melee. IF all of them are melee-oriented, then fine, a door that basically forces a melee-fight is still okay. But as aforementioned by me, at least it should get +1 AP to activate the door. 2 AP for 4 spaces is just too much. thats a global +4 SPD that ignores creep-blocking = free Bastion of Mobility. But in essence, Door = +4 AP was also within my argument. But I kinda lean towards nerfing Minos individually, because the effects of the Door might lessen if the Minos themselves aren't as meta-splashable as now... so its either: 1) Nerf the minos so that they are more melee oriented than they are now (who uses Sentry as a melee if not forced to??? Everyone who plays mino, unless they have a power turn ammo ready, would wussy out and harass via range Flamethrower/Throw Axe/Magic Attack) You can nerf the minos themselves so that a free Bastion of Mobility & free pseudo-global +4SPD as a racial synergy is not seen as OP (how can this be not OP). 2) Nerf the Door +1 AP to activate You can nerf the door so that all these fake melee race can at least harass with subtlety (its not funny how they can just hit and run 4 spaces back while waiting for their own power turn) its either one of the two imo. Anyways, I have a question. IF Skywing Beacon needs a turn to be activated, why can't the Door have the same treatment. Both of them costs the same, Both of them basically puts your units way ahead on the map, basically offering mobility. If both are similar, and both can be deployed, we can already see the imbalance here: Dimension Door can be used on the turn its deployed, Dimension Door is deployed by a 60-nora unit (vs 77 Skywing Patrol). The only difference here is that Dimension Door needs 2 AP to be used, while Skywing Beacon acts as a permanent mobility booster. But those 2 AP cost shouldn't discount the unit by 17 nora, and allowing the results to be 1 turn faster.
You can't just nerf minotaurs. Minotaurs have two problems: 1. They are an all melee race (arguably), so they NEED to be very cost-effective to get run. 2. They don't have any runes that would require them to build a full minotaur BG. So now when you combine these two things, a ''spike'' will see this and make a goodstuff bg. In which these OP minotaurs can be abused whithout the restriction of beeing all-melee. What minotaurs need is a redesign. Give the minotaurs something that would benefit them if you have more of them on the field or something. If we just nerf them now we might kill a theme and then we will have to wait months/years for buffs to happen. And they will be overbuffed and people will start splitting them with goodstuff BG's again etc....
The 3 suggestions i came with would make Flamecrusher and Sentry far less splash desirable and make Minotaur's far more theme oriented.
And that wouldn´t touch the biggest issue on minos, which is the amount of AP the Doors generate. You guys...
Yes, but not only are the doors a problem the efficiency of champs like BM, Crusher and Sentry. They need to be toned down too.
