Instakill mechanics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by free20play, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. free20play

    free20play I need me some PIE!

    and 8 speeder's first turn

    we need more powercreep
    please DoGz

    i want to watch a game where everybody has 50 abilities and whoever strikes first wins
     
  2. Monroid

    Monroid I need me some PIE!

    I lost a game because my avatar got hit twice by that angel barbarian guy. I didn't even know that kind of thing worked on avatars. Go figure...
     
  3. egami

    egami Devotee of the Blood Owl

    I think the current cap is 42 abilities but an addendum to Moore's law suggests your desire for an even 50 will be achieved shortly.
     
  4. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Instakill is necessary to counter powerchamp bullshit. Last stand decks are as fun as being hit with a brick.
     
  5. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    Drown is stupid - it should work on everything, but be more expensive, and domidive should be impossible. The fact that people just shield their champions in response is a s true as frustrating, but at least it has helped to discourage superchamp BG's.
     
  6. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    tbh I am not against insta-kills. But they have to be insta-kills you can see coming.

    Spells are not good as insta-kills.

    Shadowshank is a good instant kill. 79 nora, he has to get to his target without being killed and has to successfully land a hit. He has Easy Target and Scorn.

    It has costs and counters, takes time and you see it coming.

    Drown and Domi are just cast and done. You can say "just stay away from cliffs" for domi. But then that means staying away from every cliff in every game vs FW, even if they don't have domi. Because you can't see it coming.

    Things like Essence Drain aren't insta-kills, but are pretty much as bad. Tbh I don't like the idea of high damage spells as a whole. Spells should be for utility or long term tactical advantage. Not for instant nuking.

    Who likes carefully planning combat and then having an unexpected double fireblast and a retribution kill their army. And the solution is always splitting your champions up. This prevents so many synergy abilities. And it's not like you can sometimes utilize defender 3 or violent, because using them means getting an AoE in your face.

    One possible start to spell damage might be making it get affected by defense. For both damage and loss of life effects. Unless the spell specifically states otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  7. Prami

    Prami I need me some PIE!

    There are solutions to these problems. Instead of complaining about these mechanics, why don't you try discussing solutions?

    A few ideas:
    1.) Cliffing changed to reduce the cooldown of champions, dying by this mechanic, by 50%
    2.) Drown changed to give a window of 2-4 turns to get out of the water, before dying (should also remove all race restrictions)
    * Shadowshank is already costly. It costs likely as much as w/e you're killing & it comes into play at the cost of 8 shrine health.
    3.) Possessed mechanic changed to not allow walking off of cliffs & the exception detailed in the descriptions.
     
  8. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    Yes, tbh, I am sure they could make an ability that stops you walking onto cliff squares that the spell would grant.

    I also said Shadowshank was a good example of an insta-kill. Tbh if I was to suggest anything, it might be giving it some sort of refund if it manage to kill the target. That way succeeding makes it far more worth it, while failing costs you heavily. More reason for both players to succeed.

    My above post was edited and includes some suggested changes for damage spells in general.

    My original suggestion in another post for spells in general was to just limit spells to one per turn. Would prevent a lot of cheese and allow certain spells to be cheaper. Some spells could even make it so you can't cast spells for 3 turns, so your next turn lacks a spell.

    My other idea was having "Crystals" or something. You regenerate one crystal per turn, and spells cost nora and a certain amount of crystals.

    1. High damage spell: High nora cost, high crystal cost. Limits how often it can be used and the strength of later spells.
    2. Low damage spell: Low nora cost, medium crystal cost. Efficient but limits future spells.
    3. High utility spells: Low nora cost, high crystal cost. same as a low damage spell. Probably cheaper.
    4. General Utility (e.g. Invisibility): Low nora cost, low crystal cost. Can be cast cheaply without affecting spells much.
     
  9. LoganMkv

    LoganMkv I need me some PIE!

    Cliffing - should result in vertical push
    Possessing Fesh - stupid, should be changed
    Doom spell - balanced in general, op in stealth decks
    Drown - balanced if used with spell/relic water, op if used with champ-originated water
    Swallow whole - questionable
    Fruit - should give bloodied and disabled
    Ride down - powercreeped decacipate, should be tapped a bit
    FS spellspam - just nerf augur/trapper/troll

    Nightbarbs - after decay nerf barely usable, could use a buff
     
  10. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Buff domi
     
  11. Prami

    Prami I need me some PIE!


    How is the Tidemaster overpowered? It's been changed several times, and i feel it's at a very reasonable level.
     
  12. Fikule

    Fikule I need me some PIE!

    But what GOOD purpose do instakills provide?

    As stated, superchamps are protected regardless. These spells could be doing more interesting things.

    Drown could be a non-cleansable debuff that causes the champion to take 25% health as physical damage when ending their turn in water. Could be much cheaper and would provide deterrents to the enemy with counterplay mechanics. (i.e. leave the water, prevent the physical damage, etc)

    Dominate could simply prevent cliffing and become used for it's intended purpose.
     
    Prami likes this.
  13. Shimaru

    Shimaru Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Is fun to think even the FW community have been rallied for a nerf/rework of domination for years. And every time, this suggestion (add fly or chasm-walker) have been brought and supported.

    Another recurrent suggestion that gets a load of support is adding the same code in gale force, that is, if a possessed unit would walk into a cliff, it should instead loss all AP and the unit should stay alive on the last previous tile.
     
  14. JazzMan1221

    JazzMan1221 Better-Known Member

    I'm surprised no one has brought up the most overpowered instakill mechanic in the game, Onus of Kiergana. You honestly can't get a cheaper, more reliable instakill; just check for Shielded, and go!

    Of course, there's that annoying shrine death part, but that's why Onus decks always run Ritual of Binding to secure the win.
     
    Prami and Xinde like this.
  15. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    As an IS player I used to dread instakill mechanics. So I prayed to Al'mara and shortly after received the blessing that is the Veilwalker.
     
  16. polltroy

    polltroy I need me some PIE!

    please change how poison works... make it just damage once per clour, not once per square of cloude, or make some other change to stop this stupid bouncing around...
     
  17. Xiape

    Xiape I need me some PIE!

    This is why when you fix change instakill mechanics, you should also change powerchamps. As with the other "when you change the counter, change what it's countering" runes.
     

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