Ironfist Stronghold in a nutshell:

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Garr123, May 18, 2015.

  1. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Honestly shockwave is an awesome ability and I think it is really cool, but aren't we trying to steer away from this ez mode one shot win set up that was enabled by SOE? Knockback + poison cloud was nerfed why is shockwave any different. I admitted the knockback + poison cloud thing was out of control. I don't understand why it is so hard for IS players to realize this shockwave combo is ridiculous.
     
  2. Raikan

    Raikan I need me some PIE!

    Shockwave, by itself, doesn't bother me too much because it is susceptible to counterplay, on its own.

    The issue is that IS has all the tools it needs to eliminate counterplay potential. With Swap 3 and Invig 2, geomancer can move 11 spaces and still have enough ap to cast shockwave. Gravity Well extends the effective range and damage of Shockwave to AOE 4. This doesn't even account for IS's access to various tremor knockback mechanics. That threat range ensures that Geomancer can remain relatively safe from his opponent and his range combined with Gravity Well ensures that the ability will be devastating while activated.

    I'd start by removing Swap 3. It makes it more difficult for him to bypass meat shields; reduces his threat range; and makes it more difficult to be well-positioned for gravity well.

    G-flux is a great spell, and I'd like to see it preserved.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
    DarkJello likes this.
  3. Garr123

    Garr123 I need me some PIE!

    The Barb player was fairly well spaced out, trying to avoid the Geomancer. He couldn't space out any more unless he wanted to basically cede control of the entire match and lose. Not exactly easy to position around so many friend and foe relocation abilities.

    I've never ran Martyr and wasn't here during the hullabaloo, but yeah he (was?) too strong if you weren't playing constructs. Skeezick General is 91 Nora and the rest of the Skeezick got hit hard by the price increase to the point where they aren't particularly viable because you'll probably end up missing crucial deploys.

    None of this has anything to do with Royal Geomancer being able to deal 1000 damage. Does anything else in the game even approach that?

    Point to an exaggeration in my previous posts.
     
  4. claydude5

    claydude5 The King of Potatoes

    Gotta love the IS fanatics defending Blink, DK, and Geomancer
     
    nynevening likes this.
  5. profhulk

    profhulk Forum Royalty

    Poison cloud alone wasn't that bad. Poison cloud + vulnerable poison + knockback was bad. What did they do? Halved damage from walking through a poison cloud. Now look at Shockwave. Shock wave alone isn't that bad. Shockwave + strip armor + gravity flux is even more effective than I could ever hope poison cloud + knockback could ever be. How effective? It is capable of killing 5 champions in one round. Now if something is capable of winning games like that I am thinking there is some kind of bias involved with IS when it is not being changed. Look guys you can still have your cool shockwave + strip armor + gravity flux combo it just won't end the game anymore. 1/2 damage per shockwave.
     
  6. claydude5

    claydude5 The King of Potatoes

    Then he still can be invigorated which is a big problem.
     
  7. JaceDragon

    JaceDragon I need me some PIE!

    Blink: strong as other spot removal (VP, DT, Drown, and other instakill effect....DOOOOOOOOM)

    DK: warcry3 too damn good, he should return at 90ish. LIKE EVERY FIRKING WARCRY UNIT! YES, FIRK YOU LANCE!

    Geomancer: sok said he's ok. I belive him. You see him coming from miles away. Which is the problem? Gravity flux, a wonderfull spel which give you the possibility to do shockwave? Yes but another and after a few games played, seen, and thinking (wow so much english mistake in one phrase) i came at the conclusion that
















































    Swap 3 must go if we wanna save G-flux.



    Remember, ISisOP only because you allow it to be!
    [​IMG]
     
    DarkJello likes this.
  8. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    Warcry needs to be nerfed, it gives too much ap. Dwarven king's cost isn't the problem, the problem is the warcry ability.
    Geomancer is not ok, shockwave was designed terribly and needs to be changed asap, it should have been hotfixed a long time ago.
    Gravity flux is fine, wtf.
     
  9. Anotherblackman

    Anotherblackman I need me some PIE!


    yeah I guess Swap 3 is too much...

    swap 1
     
  10. nynevening

    nynevening Member

    When I started playing IS was the most OP faction. It still is. Why is that? Been a lot of years since those early days...
     
  11. Garr123

    Garr123 I need me some PIE!


    I like the fact that you're suggesting Gravity Flux is the problem. The flop sweat of desperation is oozing through my monitor.

    Also, Blink cleanses Doom and also functions as a full heal. Also, is basically permanent removal when used correctly with the only defense being immunity to spells. The number of games Blink has won me outnumbers any other spell you named.

    It is stronger than every other removal spell by a sight AND functions as catch-all support spell, which is fine, but IS players constantly whine about ED and Doom stopping your untouchable tanks. Dish it out, but can't take it.

    Again, what does this have to do with Royal Geomancer other then trying to deflect attention away?
     
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  12. mw24

    mw24 I need me some PIE!

    alot of bad game designs within the faction.
     
  13. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    It was always pretty good.

    Eh, "cheap champ spam" is exaggerated but either way doesn't have a huge impact on Shockwave. But of course you have to get your 2 cents in about "cheap champ spam" as usual.

    This isn't a post-revamp thing tho. He had Swap 3 prior to the revamp. I am pretty sure it was part of his ORIGINAL design. It'd be more convincing if your analysis didn't contain huge factual errors.

    upload_2015-5-19_21-23-3.png

    ~

    Anyway, we will probably tweak Shockwave a bit in terms of its high end damage output.
     
  14. nynevening

    nynevening Member

    You treat like this is a small design error. You should be more humble, really, and admit this is a huge screw up. Have you ever been to a math class? Do you know what exponencial increase means?
     
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  15. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yes, and it doesn't apply in any way here.
     
  16. nynevening

    nynevening Member

    And by the way, everyone makes mistakes, its ok. But being honest, transparent and coming foward is the first step to make things right.

    So, whats really going on? Is IS your favorite faction? Can you leave your personal feelings aside when developing the game?

    That favoritism strangles the playerbase, kills the game. Its a great game idea, please, dont kill it.
     
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Yes, IS is my favorite faction. You got me.
     
  18. nynevening

    nynevening Member

    Ure right, not exponential:
    1 champ = 10 damage
    2 champs = 40 damage total
    3 champs = 90 damage total

    So it means:
    F(x) = x*x*10

    Still damage increases quite fast dont you think?

    Make it x*x + 10 and it will be good enough.
     
  19. nynevening

    nynevening Member

    I KNEEEEWWWW IT!!!!
     
  20. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    How is this relevant to my post about him having Swap 3 before revamp?
     

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